X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from ms-smtp-03.southeast.rr.com ([24.25.9.102] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1.2) with ESMTP id 1599556 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 24 Nov 2006 14:03:10 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.102; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-024-074-098-162.carolina.res.rr.com [24.74.98.162]) by ms-smtp-03.southeast.rr.com (8.13.6/8.13.6) with SMTP id kAOJ2D3j017424 for ; Fri, 24 Nov 2006 14:02:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000901c70ffb$11fdc480$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Spark plug choices. Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 14:02:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C70FD1.2601EB70" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2962 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C70FD1.2601EB70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Boy, considering the possible down side of overly "Hot" plugs vs = replacing the stock ones, I have to agree, Mic. Nice to have Lynn with = real-world experience point out those not-so-nice down sides. =20 Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Perry Mick=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 1:29 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Spark plug choices. Lynn: You scared me so I went out and removed the spark plugs. WX too crappy = to fly anyway. The BUR6EQ-L and BUR8EQ-T were installed 9-16-06 and I put 6.0 hours = on the plane since then. The plug color didn't look any different than any other set of plugs = I've removed in the past, and the electrodes still looked like new. I have excess radiator capacity and a thermostat, the coolant = temperature as measured at the stock location never varies from = thermostat temperature even on an extended full power climb on a hot = day. So that's probably why I lucked out and didn't experience any = detonation with the hotter plugs. According to NGK only about 70 to 100C = hotter than BUR7EQ/9EQ. I agree with you that this is not a good solution to lead fouling, so = the experiment is terminated prematurely. I have 500 hours on this = engine, no reason to destroy it now. I don't fully understand how these plugs get lead fouled anyway, the = whole ceramic insulator must get coated with enough conductive lead to = short them out. I hate 100LL and don't even want to burn it, but on long trips it's = the only thing readily available. Trying to locate aviation enthusiasts = to help me get mogas enroute is a bit of a hassle, but not as much = hassle as changing the spark plugs mid-trip. I was successful flying = from Oregon to Kansas and back last summer and the summer before with = mogas assistance in Utah and Nebraska. http://www.bridgingworlds.com/k61_2/k61_2_photos.htm http://www.frappr.com/mogasassistancenetwork Next question: how easy or difficult is it to install a MSD system on = a stock Mazda EFI? I'm going to get one and put it in my RX-7 to find = out. Lynn wrote: That 1,000 degrees of nose temp is not a limit. Even 800 degrees is = not a limit. Those are "kiss your engine good by temps".One episode of = preignition and it is over. Since the only way there is to detect plug damage is to damage the = plug and then look at it, this will be a very expensive system for = determining the maximum heat range. If it takes a set of plugs to make a = round trip to Sun&Fun, so what? Spring for the $7.00 and put in a new = set. If you get the SAG after even 10 hours, this is a tiny percentage = of the cost of flying. Carry 4 new plugs with you and the wrench. How = many people have not had coolant and oil temperature control problems on = the first flights? This means higher nose temps does it not? Running a car plug at 900 degrees to avoid lead fouling is out of the = question. Run whatever Tracy runs. He isn't loosing engines.=20 Lynn E. Hanover=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C70FD1.2601EB70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Boy, considering the possible down side of = overly "Hot"=20 plugs vs replacing the stock ones, I have to agree, Mic.  Nice to = have Lynn=20 with real-world experience point out those not-so-nice down sides.  =
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Perry = Mick=20
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 = 1:29=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Spark plug = choices.

Lynn:

You scared me so I went out and removed = the spark=20 plugs. WX too crappy to fly anyway.

The BUR6EQ-L and BUR8EQ-T = were=20 installed 9-16-06 and I put 6.0 hours on the plane since = then.

The plug=20 color didn't look any different than any other set of plugs I've = removed in=20 the past, and the electrodes still looked like new.

I have = excess=20 radiator capacity and a thermostat, the coolant temperature as = measured at the=20 stock location never varies from thermostat temperature even on an = extended=20 full power climb on a hot day. So that's probably why I lucked out and = didn't=20 experience any detonation with the hotter plugs. According to NGK only = about=20 70 to 100C hotter than BUR7EQ/9EQ.

I agree with you that this = is not a=20 good solution to lead fouling, so the experiment is terminated = prematurely. I=20 have 500 hours on this engine, no reason to destroy it now.

I = don't=20 fully understand how these plugs get lead fouled anyway, the whole = ceramic=20 insulator must get coated with enough conductive lead to short them = out.
I=20 hate 100LL and don't even want to burn it, but on long trips it's the = only=20 thing readily available. Trying to locate aviation enthusiasts to help = me get=20 mogas enroute is a bit of a hassle, but not as much hassle as changing = the=20 spark plugs mid-trip. I was successful flying from Oregon to Kansas = and back=20 last summer and the summer before with mogas assistance in Utah and=20 Nebraska.
http://www.= bridgingworlds.com/k61_2/k61_2_photos.htm
http://www.frappr.c= om/mogasassistancenetwork

Next=20 question: how easy or difficult is it to install a MSD system on a = stock Mazda=20 EFI? I'm going to get one and put it in my RX-7 to find = out.

Lynn=20 wrote:

That 1,000 degrees of nose temp is not a limit. Even 800 degrees = is not a=20 limit. Those are "kiss your engine good by temps".One episode of = preignition=20 and it is over.
 
Since the only way there is to detect plug damage is to damage = the plug=20 and then look at it, this will be a very expensive system for = determining the=20 maximum heat range. If it takes a set of plugs to make a round trip to = Sun&Fun, so what? Spring for the $7.00 and put in a new set. If = you get=20 the SAG after even 10 hours, this is a tiny percentage of the cost of = flying.=20 Carry 4 new plugs with you and the wrench. How many people have not = had=20 coolant and oil temperature control problems on the first flights? = This means=20 higher nose temps does it not?
 
Running a car plug at 900 degrees to avoid lead fouling is out of = the=20 question. Run whatever Tracy runs. He isn't loosing engines.
 
Lynn E. Hanover

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