X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from bay0-omc1-s21.bay0.hotmail.com ([65.54.246.93] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1c.6) with ESMTP id 1466008 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 14 Oct 2006 11:03:02 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=65.54.246.93; envelope-from=lors01@msn.com Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.250.75]) by bay0-omc1-s21.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Sat, 14 Oct 2006 08:02:41 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 14 Oct 2006 08:02:41 -0700 Message-ID: Received: from 4.171.147.53 by BAY115-DAV3.phx.gbl with DAV; Sat, 14 Oct 2006 15:02:38 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [4.171.147.53] X-Originating-Email: [lors01@msn.com] X-Sender: lors01@msn.com From: "Tracy Crook" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Latest EC2 updates, Installation notes Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 11:02:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_012A_01C6EF80.40C25DD0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.20.0029.3000 Seal-Send-Time: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 11:02:34 -0400 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Oct 2006 15:02:41.0774 (UTC) FILETIME=[CBFC98E0:01C6EFA1] Return-Path: lors01@msn.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_012A_01C6EF80.40C25DD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Opps, signed off too quick to catch that Mark. Below is what I wrote to = Bob Darrah on the subject. Have not heard back from him yet. I am = surprised that there is any cross-talk in the harness as the GM harness = does not seem to have this problem in the car. The harness in the plane = is either much longer or something else is going on. Need a few details on harness routing to answer your question. 1. How long is the wiring harness between EC2 and coils? =20 2. How is the power ground to the coils (A terminals) routed? = (hopefully not in the same harness, if so, there is your problem). 3. Same question as 2. on the power terminals.=20 4. I would be surprised if this turned out to be the problem but if = coupling between the control lines themselves (C pins) turns out to be = the problem, use either twisted pairs or shielded wires to drive the B = & C lines to each coil. I would lean toward twisted pairs. =20 5. Are there any other lines routed along with the coil harness = (injector drives, etc)? Tracy ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark R Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 4:39 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Latest EC2 updates, Installation notes Tracy,=20 Before you sign off, can you shed some light on my previous post = concerning cross-firing of the coils and what to do abou it? =20 =20 Thanks, Mark S.=20 ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft on behalf of Mark R Steitle Sent: Mon 10/9/2006 8:31 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Latest EC2 updates, Installation notes OK, I'll chime in here. After reading Bob Darrah's post last week = where he noticed a big improvement after separating the leads to his = coils I gave it a try on my 20B. It made a big difference, but was most = noticeable in the lower rpm range. I was only able to separate the = wires down near the coils, and then only by a small amount, but it made = a substantial improvement. My question for Tracy is, can I leave the = grounds and +14v wires bundled together and only separate the trigger = leads, or do I need to separate all the wires? Also, if I were to use 3 = individual shielded wires and ground the shields, could I then bundle = the trigger leads together with the rest of the coil wires? =20 On a side note, after separating the coil leads, it took a much leaner = mixture to get it to run smooth. Before, the best it would idle was = about 1200rpm, now it will idle nicely at 900 rpm, not that I want to do = that, but it shows that the improvement isn't all in my head. =20 Mark S. =20 =20 ________________________________ From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Wendell Voto Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 11:08 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Latest EC2 updates, Installation notes =20 Tracy, Would shielded cables be okay to run close together in a fiberglass = aircraft? Thanks, Wendell ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Tracy Crook > =20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft = > = =20 Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 9:31 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Latest EC2 updates, Installation notes While trouble shooting Al Gietzen's EC2 engine controller problems, he = mentioned that he was seeing relatively large mixture changes when the = alternator was switched off and the battery voltage went low. The = mixture goes leaner with lower battery voltage because the injectors = take longer to open. It was well within the range of the manual mixture = control to correct but it got me to thinking about adding battery = voltage compensation to the EC2. This has been done and all controllers = shipped after 9-20-06 now incorporate this feature. Not a freebie, but = if anyone wants this incorporated into an earlier EC2 it can be = retrofitted. The other update is a rev limiter. It was easy to do so I went ahead = and added it. I haven't seen this as a priority because in our = application if you make use of it, it means that you need to be more = concerned about the pilot's health than the engine's (the prop has = fallen off the airplane). The default rev limit is 8000 rpm. If you = want something different, specify when ordering. (Also retrofittable) EC2 / EM2 Installation Note. This only applies to EC2 engine controller installations combined with = early two-part EM2 engine monitors in canard aircraft where both units = are installed near the engine and have long wiring harnesses connecting = them to the EC2 front panel and EM2 display (a rare combination that may = be unique to Al's airplane). Have been working with Al for some time = searching for the cause of random MAP table and other EC2 parameter = corruption. I am now almost certain that the cause is noise coupling = from the EM2 display harness into the EC2 control panel harness. The = two harnesses were laced together in Al's installation. He is in the = process of separating them now (sympathies to Al, no picnic). Needless = to say at this point, never run these two harnesses together and = separate them as far as practical. I think Al will have about 4 inches = between them when separated. Tracy Crook, RWS -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/ ------=_NextPart_000_012A_01C6EF80.40C25DD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Opps, signed off too quick to catch that Mark.  Below is = what I=20 wrote to Bob Darrah on the subject.  Have not heard back from him = yet. I am=20 surprised that there is any cross-talk in the harness as the GM harness = does not=20 seem to have this problem in the car.  The harness in the plane is = either=20 much longer or something else is going on.
 
 Need a few details on harness routing to answer your = question.
1.  How long is the wiring harness between EC2 and = coils? 
2.  How is the power ground to the coils (A terminals) routed? = (hopefully not in the same harness, if so, there is your problem).
3.  Same question as 2. on the power terminals. 
4. I would be surprised if this turned out to be the problem but if = coupling between the control lines themselves (C pins) turns out to be = the=20 problem,  use either twisted pairs or shielded wires to drive the B = & C=20 lines to each coil.  I would lean toward twisted pairs.  =
5.  Are there any other lines routed along with the coil = harness=20 (injector drives, etc)?
 
Tracy
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark R Steitle =
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 = 4:39=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Latest = EC2=20 updates, Installation notes

Tracy,
Before you sign off, can you shed some light = on my=20 previous post concerning cross-firing of the coils and what to do abou = it? 
 
Thanks,
Mark S.=20

________________________________

From: Rotary motors in = aircraft on behalf of Mark R Steitle
Sent: Mon 10/9/2006 8:31 = AM
To:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Latest EC2 = updates,=20 Installation notes



OK, I'll chime in here.  After = reading=20 Bob Darrah's post last week where he noticed a big improvement after=20 separating the leads to his coils I gave it a try on my 20B.  It = made a=20 big difference, but was most noticeable in the lower rpm range.  = I was=20 only able to separate the wires down near the coils, and then only by = a small=20 amount, but it made a substantial improvement.  My question for = Tracy is,=20 can I leave the grounds and +14v wires bundled together and only = separate the=20 trigger leads, or do I need to separate all the wires?  Also, if = I were=20 to use 3 individual shielded wires and ground the shields, could I = then bundle=20 the trigger leads together with the rest of the coil=20 wires?

 

On a side note, after separating the coil = leads,=20 it took a much leaner mixture to get it to run smooth.  Before, = the best=20 it would idle was about 1200rpm, now it will idle nicely at 900 rpm, = not that=20 I want to do that, but it shows that the improvement isn't all in my=20 head.

 

Mark S.

   =20

 

________________________________

From: = Rotary=20 motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = Wendell=20 Voto
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 11:08 PM
To: Rotary motors = in=20 aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Latest EC2 updates, Installation=20 notes

 

Tracy,

Would shielded cables be okay = to run=20 close together in a fiberglass=20 aircraft?

Thanks,

Wendell

----- Original Message = -----=20

From: Tracy Crook <mailto:lors01@msn.com>  =

To:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft <mailto:flyrotary@lancaironlin= e.net> =20

Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 9:31 AM

Subject: = [FlyRotary]=20 Re: Latest EC2 updates, Installation notes



While = trouble=20 shooting Al Gietzen's EC2 engine controller problems, he mentioned = that he was=20 seeing relatively large mixture changes  when the alternator was = switched=20 off and the battery voltage went low.  The mixture goes leaner = with lower=20 battery voltage because the injectors take longer to open.  It = was well=20 within the range of the manual mixture control to correct but it got = me to=20 thinking about adding battery voltage compensation to the EC2.  = This has=20 been done and all controllers shipped after 9-20-06 now incorporate = this=20 feature.  Not a freebie, but if anyone wants this incorporated = into an=20 earlier EC2 it can be retrofitted.



The other update is = a rev=20 limiter. It was easy to do so I went ahead and added it. I haven't = seen this=20 as a priority because in our application if you make use of it, it = means that=20 you need to be more concerned about the pilot's health than the = engine's (the=20 prop has fallen off the airplane).  The default rev limit is 8000 = rpm.   If you want something different, specify when=20 ordering.    (Also retrofittable)



EC2 / = EM2=20 Installation Note.



This only applies to EC2 engine = controller=20 installations combined with early two-part EM2 engine monitors in = canard=20 aircraft where both units are installed near the engine and have long = wiring=20 harnesses connecting them to the EC2 front panel and EM2 display (a = rare=20 combination that may be unique to Al's airplane).   Have = been=20 working with Al for some time searching for the cause of random MAP = table and=20 other EC2 parameter corruption.  I am now almost certain that the = cause=20 is noise coupling from the EM2 display harness into the EC2 control = panel=20 harness.  The two harnesses were laced together in Al's=20 installation.   He is in the process of separating them now=20 (sympathies to Al, no picnic).   Needless to say at this=20 point,  never run these two harnesses together and separate them = as far=20 as practical.   I think Al will have about 4 inches between = them=20 when separated.



Tracy Crook,  =20 RWS

--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archi= ve and=20 UnSub:   http://mail.lanca= ironline.net/lists/flyrotary/
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