Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #33603
From: Thomas y Reina Jakits <rijakits@cwpanama.net>
Subject: Accused! - Open Letter to Paul Lamar, ACRE-newsletter; was: Motor-beam-mount, was Re: Engine alignment
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 20:59:12 -0500
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Hello all,
 
I don't want to bore anyone with old dirty laundry, but I feel obliged to correct a post on this list:
 
A kind member of both lists (this one and the "other"....) brought to my attention, that I was called a thief and other names on the "other" list
- Yes, another PL-tale !! -
 
As the reason for this tale was posted by me on this list, I will attempt to put things straight (most likely a futile effort, ...):
 
I think the post concerned was about whether the Rotary (in a specific application...) should/could be "plugs-up" (first PL-no/no) and whether Jerry's S-beam would still work or not. Also CCI was mentioned as a possible motormount (second PL-no/no).
(See the original post at the very bottom of this message, I assume it is the one that caused PL's wrath, ... again!)
 
I then answered with my opinions about the CCI and Mistral mounts, and that my choice would be to duplicate a beam-mount used/r&d'ed/designed/built by Richard Martin (then and possibly still involved in the installation of a Rotary Engine in a helicopter project).
I added some pics to illustrate the mount.
 
The pics I received with a post concerning beam mounts from Paul Lamar's ACRE list, when I still was on it.
I did not specifically mention (... unfortunately), that the pics where taken by Mr. Paul Lamar, owner of the ACRE-list, but I did mention, that this info, including the pics originated (for me, anyway...) from the "other" list. see pink highlight in the original message below!
 
The kind member of both lists mentioned above, forwarded the following posting on the other list to me:
 
quote 1:
 
-Slim ball parasites-
Slim ball parasites posting my pictures on other
rotary engine list. Not a word from where they originated.
I kicked the low life jerk off the list a long while back:)
He did not even bother to change the names.

These are three examples. I took these pictures in
in Arlington 2004 thanks to hospitality of Richard Martin

Last picture is of Richard Martin.

I am pissed. I am getting ready to sue.
 
...end of quote 1.
 
 
Same day later from a different source on the same newsletter:
 
quote 2:
 
Paul,
That's still the best mount I've seen for the Rotary .
George (down under)

That does not excuse him from stealing my pictures.

Paul Lamar ...No rotor no motor.
 
...end of quote 2.
 
 
Just to make it clear: I will forward this post directly to Mr. Paul Lamar by email, though I think he is on this list anyway!
 
Open letter to Mr. Paul Lamar:
 
 
Mr. Lamar,
 
a)    I apologize that I did not mention you directly as the "owner" of the pictures in question.
At the time I posted them I was not aware that they where taken by you and not given to you by Richard Martin.
I did mention that I obtained them from a post on the "other list", when I still was on this list.
(...which, I hope we can agree upon, always means/meant the other one of the 2 lists -
ACRE , or AREN as you seem to call it now and FlyRotary, depending on which list it gets posted.)
 
I re-read the post and you do state that you took the pics, so again, I apologize for not specifically mentioning that fact.
 
b)    On your website you mention somewhere, that it (... your website) is for the general benefit and advancement of the Rotary Engine as an alternative aircraft engine.
I admire your knowledge/insight/dedication to the Rotary and your (generally) free advice and willingness to make your ideas and R&D available to the public.
 
c)    It surprises me that much more when you start to "retail" against someone that supposedly infringed on your rights.
 
d)    In the past, whenever I referred someone new to the Rotary engine in aviation, I always pointed them to both lists.
By the time I got kicked off your list, I started to warn people about posting opposing opinions on your list, as that might get them retired real fast.
But, Mr. Lamar, I never got that low to call you any names!
And I never will!
(I do not consider attributes that where jokingly made on this list as "calling names", your view may differ .....)
 
It is amazing, that on a basically un-moderated newsletter like FlyRotary, one never reads about anybody getting called names, .... except when you get quoted!
 
e)    If it means so much to you, why don't you title all your online material with "copyright Paul Lamar" - this is very easy to do, especially on pictures.
If you are so serious about it I suggest to change your Greek "copyright" to English, as very few people will be able to get the note in Greek!
 
This way, the originator of any info you post on your website and/or newsletter will be known.
 
Generally I refer people to your site, so they may find out for themselves.
Just sometimes things are faster/easier/simpler to forward.
 
f)    On the specific case, the question was about motormounts.
As I know your stand on copyright and giving credit where it is due, I very much did give credit to the man who made the part, Richard Martin.
see pink highlight in the original message below!
 
g)    Copyright:
Remember one thing, Mr.Lamar - you did freely send these pictures along with the post on your newsletter (2004, if I remember right...). At the time this message was sent I still belonged to the list of receivers, so I certainly did not steal them!
 
Furthermore I did never pretend that these pics are mine or taken by me.
 
Finally, these pics where never used by me in any commercial / financial / reputation beneficial way towards me.
 
(Well, maybe Jerry gets a couple of bucks if Ben goes that direction, and if Jerry accepts the challenge...)
 
note to Jerry and Ben:
Please consult with Mr. Lamar on copyright issues before proceeding with any idea or design resulting from my post!
 
Your pics where simply used to transfer an idea for a possible solution for a fellow rotary enthusiast
(...something you claim your web-presence pursues too, in one way or another).
 
Again, I did not claim any personal achievements on any of this (... not the motormount, nor the photos).
I would not be able to do so, as I am at the bottom of the learning curve concerning Rotaries.
 
But, I do observe/ask/question/suggest - I understand this is all a newsletter is about!
So, if I can I will point things out to fellow list members, in case they are not aware of a fact/issue/idea/etc..
 
h)    It is appalling, that a man of your education/experience/professional success/intellect,
returns to the state of a badmouthed teen when you feel infringed on your rights (copy or other)!
 
Mr. Lamar, a simple email with the details pointed out would have been all it needed!
 
h1)    You posted "He did not even bother to change the names."
Can you explain what you mean with that??
What for would I want to change any names? Credit to whom it is due!
I never intended to change any names nor would I see a need to do so.
No intention to hide anything!!
 
i)    Considering my perception of your lack of education in civilized communications skills, I do not expect any reply from you to this letter.
I don't think you have the courage to do so!
 
Just as I gave up to ever find the reason for being "kicked off as a low life jerk a long while back" (quote from your post on your newsletter....).
To this day I have really no idea what bothered you so much to kick me off without any explanation/accusation!
(Just a little refresher, you never called my attention on any issue/post/etc. You went to Oskosh '04, and that was it. After that I was off the list.)
An educated person at least answers emailed inquiries to why or what.
Did it ever occur to you, that you might have mistaken me for someone else?
If someone claimed any statements supposedly made by me, wouldn't it be prudent to investigate the truth?
I bet the same questions would come from some of the other members in the "Kicked-off"-Club on this list!
 
j)    There is a good percentage of Non-native English speakers on this list (... and where on yours, at the time I "was" left...).
It is inevitable that sometimes things get translated the wrong way or misunderstandings arise. Prudence calls at least for an effort to straighten out issues.
Of course this will not excuse the "low-life actions" of all the native speakers in the "Kicked-off"-Club!
 
k)    Just denying discussion of a subject, because you do not agree with it, does nothing to resolve the basic issue.
I refer specifically to the "plugs-up" issue as a sample.
We all know you don't like it - but you never brought up a single reason (that would stand scrutiny...) why it should not be used, why it is "dangerous", why it can't be done. All you say is "no" and whoever disagrees is out!!
 
You seem to carry over this attitude to lesser things just the same.
 
By the way "plugs-up" seems to work just great and there is a whole list of benefits to this installation - besides possible space considerations, which brought up this configuration in the first place.
 
The same goes for any members on this fine list, that ever got kicked off yours.
Common sense would reason, that if these guys are all "low life jerks", that they would continue to be so on any other list and just the same in their lives - it is hard to change what you are!
However I had to come to the conclusion that all members on this list (FlyRotary) whom I am aware off, are rather extremely polite and educated people
(...in this case education has nothing to do with University/College/whatever degree....).
I did frequent other newslists, where there is more mud-slinging than subject discussion. Not so here!
 
What this means, Mr. Lamar, is, that you are very, very wrong in your assessment of most of those whom you rejected.
This is not my subjective opinion - but a simple objective observation over time.
 
 
 
Enough said.....
 
If you care to reply, please do so - on your list (I am sure I will get the message:)),
on this list,
or to my email, listed below.
 
Best Regards,
 
Thomas Jakits
Rotary Enthusiast
 
PS: Mr. Lamar, if you seriously consider and desire to sue, please go ahead!
If you want to waist your time/effort/money/nerves over some photo credit issues showing the work of someone else,
then you deserve all the misery you will receive from your legal effort!
 
There are lots of times in life you don't get what you think you should! ..........Get over and on with it !!
 
 
 
 
 
original message below, pictures eliminated!==================================================================================================
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 8:56 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Motor-beam-mount, was Re: Engine alignment

Hi Ben,
 
even if you can't use one of Jerry's S-beams, he should be able to weld you one of these babies (see attached pics).
Lay them out the way you need them, have some knowledgeable engineer math it and off you go!
Startermount included, and also check the turbo-pack!!
Photos are from an old post on the "other" list.
Richard Martin is "responsible" for that beauty, working for a helicopter project...
 
I have pics, if you need/want them, but these are the most "visible" ones!
 
 
I assume a CCI would do also-sideways, though I do not really like the loadpath of the CCI.
Another alternative is the Mistral backplate mount, but again, I don't really like the loadpath through the engine.
My personal go is something like the pics show - or a S-beam - the load gets picked up there and the engine is left alone.
Keep on mind the pics show a mount for a helicopter project, but I believe it should be possible to get it right for plane inthe same manner, though possibly with different dimensions.
 
Thomas J.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 11:41 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine alignment

Dale,
Please post pictures of your mount or send them to me directly. I am also considering plugs up on my Acroduster Too mostly to help with inverted flight and oil, but also because a high thrust line is preferred on the plane.
Do you see any negatives with the installation other than not being able to use Jerry Hey's S-Beam Mount?
Do you know if plugs up will work with George's (down under) bell housing?
Thanks!
Ben
 
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