X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from paris.boulder.noaa.gov ([140.172.10.145] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.1c.2) with ESMTP id 1226069 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 06 Jul 2006 11:36:47 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=140.172.10.145; envelope-from=William.P.Dube@noaa.gov Received: from [140.172.241.126] (mungo.al.noaa.gov [140.172.241.126]) by email.boulder.noaa.gov (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.01 (built Aug 26 2004)) with ESMTPSA id <0J1Z00FKANC1V1@email.boulder.noaa.gov> for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 06 Jul 2006 15:36:02 +0000 (GMT) Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2006 09:30:28 -0600 From: Bill Dube Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Nothing to do with Rotary Engines, but.... In-reply-to: To: Rotary motors in aircraft Reply-to: William.P.Dube@noaa.gov Message-id: <44AD2C94.6090009@noaa.gov> Organization: NOAA Aeronomy Lab MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_s/gQmRn3D8lF28zw/9SI/g)" X-Accept-Language: en-us, en User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) References: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_s/gQmRn3D8lF28zw/9SI/g) Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT They are Li-Ion batteries, but there are many kinds of Li-Ion batteries. The A123 Systems cells use iron phosphate instead of cobalt or molybdenum. They also use very carefully prepared paste with very uniform particles ("nano-technology".) Here is their website: http://www.A123Systems.com Read about it all for yourself! Bill Dube' James Maher wrote: > Bill, > What technology are these batteries? > Are they Li-Ion or some other material? > Thanks, > Jim > > */"BillDube@killacycle.com" /* wrote: > > At the moment, about the best that commercial Li-Ion rechargeable > cells can do is about 200+ W-hr/kg. > > In more familiar units, this translates to about 1/2 HP for an hour > for each pound of batteries carried. Basically, the weight in pounds > will be twice the HP times the number of hours that you want. > > Good for a motor-glider, but that is about it. > > > Bill Dube' > > > At 07:45 PM 7/5/2006, you wrote: > > >Really was something to see that Bike burn out... > > > >Or may even to skew Bob's comment some, How about 175hp for 20 > minutes, then > >125hp for 4 hours, with a 30 minute 175hp reserve. > > > >Tony Snow (Bearhawk #753) > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Rotary motors in aircraft > [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On > >Behalf Of Bob White > >Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 9:01 PM > >To: Rotary motors in aircraft > >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Nothing to do with Rotary Engines, but.... > > > > > >Very impressive indeed. Another one or two orders of magnitude > >improvement and we can forget the rotary and just put an electric > motor > >up front (or out back if you're so inclined). Now that would be > >simple, reliable, and quiet too boot. How about it Bill? Can you give > >me 175 HP for 4-5 hours in 200 lbs or so? (Damn the cost, that would > >be worth taking out a new mortgage on the house.) ;) > > > >Bob W. > > > > > >On Wed, 5 Jul 2006 20:36:29 -0400 > >"Ed Anderson" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Very impressed with your electric drag bike endeavors - got to > be almost > >as > > > good as flying a rotary {:>) > > > > > > Ed > > > > > > Ed Anderson > > > Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered > > > Matthews, NC > > > eanderson@carolina.rr.com > > > http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Bill Dube" > > > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 7:50 PM > > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Nothing to do with Rotary Engines, but.... > > > > > > > > > > This has absolutely nothing to do with rotary engines, but I > thought I'd > > > > show you what has been distracting me from my airplane > construction as > >of > > > > late. > > > > > > > > For those of you that don't already know, my other hobby is > drag racing > >an > > > > electric motorcycle. (It takes a team of people to do this, > not just > >me.) > > > > We recently managed to get sponsorship from A123 Systems. These > >batteries > > > > are like "Mr. Fusion" in the movie "Back to the Future." > Enormous power > > > > and a bottomless pit of energy. The more I work with these > batteries, > >the > > > > more impressed I become. > > > > > > > > Here is a clip of the bike doing a burn-out: > > > > > > > > http://www.killacycle.com/Burnout.wmv > > > > > > > > Here is a clip of the bike turning parts of the rear motor into > >molten > > > > copper as it goes down the strip: > > > > > > > > http://www.killacycle.com/Second%20Run.wmv > > > > > > > > We can do six burn-outs and six runs without recharging if > we cared > > > > to. Maybe seven. > > > > > > > > The 170 battery pack puts out over 350 HP. The battery pack > is 376 > > > > volts, 1350 amps, and has 18.4 A-hrs. We charge up in about > 15 minutes > > > > after every run. > > > > > > > > I plan to start building airplane batteries with them soon, > by the > >way. > > > > It will be late Winter, probably. A123 Systems batteries are > ideal for > > > > aircraft. They are lightweight, powerful, robust, long cycle > life, and > > > > very, very safe. I'm pretty sure I can build a battery that > will crank > >500 > > > > amps, but will weigh less than 3 lbs. > > > > > > > > I guess it had something to do with airplanes.... :-) > > > > > > > > Bill Dube' > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > > > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/ > > > > > >-- > >http://www.bob-white.com > >N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 (first engine start 1/7/06) > >Custom Cables for your rotary installation - > >http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/ > > > >-- > >Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > >Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/ > > > > > > > >-- > >Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > >Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/ > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/ > > --Boundary_(ID_s/gQmRn3D8lF28zw/9SI/g) Content-type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT They are Li-Ion batteries, but there are many kinds of Li-Ion batteries.

The A123 Systems cells use iron phosphate instead of cobalt or molybdenum. They also use very carefully prepared paste with very uniform particles ("nano-technology".)

Here is their website:  http://www.A123Systems.com

Read about it all for yourself!

Bill Dube'

James Maher wrote:
Bill,
What technology are these batteries?
Are they Li-Ion or some other material?
Thanks,
At the moment, about the best that commercial Li-Ion rechargeable
cells can do is about 200+ W-hr/kg.

In more familiar units, this translates to about 1/2 HP for an hour
for each pound of batteries carried. Basically, the weight in pounds
will be twice the HP times the number of hours that you want.

Good for a motor-glider, but that is about it.


Bill Dube'


At 07:45 PM 7/5/2006, you wrote:

>Really was something to see that Bike burn out...
>
>Or may even to skew Bob's comment some, How about 175hp for 20 minutes, then
>125hp for 4 hours, with a 30 minute 175hp reserve.
>
>Tony Snow (Bearhawk #753)
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On
>Behalf Of Bob White
>Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 9:01 PM
>To: Rotary motors in aircraft
>Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Nothing to do with Rotary Engines, but....
>
>
>Very impressive indeed. Another one or two orders of magnitude
>improvement and we can forget the rotary and just put an electric motor
>up front (or out back if you're so inclined). Now that would be
>simple, reliable, and quiet too boot. How about it Bill? Can you give
>me 175 HP for 4-5 hours in 200 lbs or so? (Damn the cost, that would
>be worth taking out a new mortgage on the house.) ;)
>
>Bob W.
>
>
>On Wed, 5 Jul 2006 20:36:29 -0400
>"Ed Anderson" wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Very impressed with your electric drag bike endeavors - got to be almost
>as
> > good as flying a rotary {:>)
> >
> > Ed
> >
> > Ed Anderson
> > Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
> > Matthews, NC
> > eanderson@carolina.rr.com
> > http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bill Dube"
> > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft"
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 7:50 PM
> > Subject: [FlyRotary] Nothing to do with Rotary Engines, but....
> >
> >
> > > This has absolutely nothing to do with rotary engines, but I thought I'd
> > > show you what has been distracting me from my airplane construction as
>of
> > > late.
> > >
> > > For those of you that don't already know, my other hobby is drag racing
>an
> > > electric motorcycle. (It takes a team of people to do this, not just
>me.)
> > > We recently managed to get sponsorship from A123 Systems. These
>batteries
> > > are like "Mr. Fusion" in the movie "Back to the Future." Enormous power
> > > and a bottomless pit of energy. The more I work with these batteries,
>the
> > > more impressed I become.
> > >
> > > Here is a clip of the bike doing a burn-out:
> > >
> > > http://www.killacycle.com/Burnout.wmv
> > >
> > > Here is a clip of the bike turning parts of the rear motor into
>molten
> > > copper as it goes down the strip:
> > >
> > > http://www.killacycle.com/Second%20Run.wmv
> > >
> > > We can do six burn-outs and six runs without recharging if we cared
> > > to. Maybe seven.
> > >
> > > The 170 battery pack puts out over 350 HP. The battery pack is 376
> > > volts, 1350 amps, and has 18.4 A-hrs. We charge up in about 15 minutes
> > > after every run.
> > >
> > > I plan to start building airplane batteries with them soon, by the
>way.
> > > It will be late Winter, probably. A123 Systems batteries are ideal for
> > > aircraft. They are lightweight, powerful, robust, long cycle life, and
> > > very, very safe. I'm pretty sure I can build a battery that will crank
>500
> > > amps, but will weigh less than 3 lbs.
> > >
> > > I guess it had something to do with airplanes.... :-)
> > >
> > > Bill Dube'
> > >
> > > --
> > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
> > > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
> > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/
>
>
>--
>http://www.bob-white.com
>N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 (first engine start 1/7/06)
>Custom Cables for your rotary installation -
>http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/
>
>--
>Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
>Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/
>
>
>
>--
>Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
>Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/


--
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