X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from eastrmmtao06.cox.net ([68.230.240.33] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.9) with ESMTP id 1068781 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 18:12:02 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=68.230.240.33; envelope-from=candtmallory@cox.net Received: from chrish7s5nwiv2 ([68.106.204.110]) by eastrmmtao06.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.06.01 201-2131-130-101-20060113) with SMTP id <20060414221115.DJTK18886.eastrmmtao06.cox.net@chrish7s5nwiv2> for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2006 18:11:15 -0400 Message-ID: <008601c66010$63ed30f0$6ecc6a44@chrish7s5nwiv2> From: "chris mallory" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil tank Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 17:11:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0083_01C65FE6.7AEC4860" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0083_01C65FE6.7AEC4860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tracy, What do you think? Is the extra 1/2 inch from the plate enough? Can I = get away with just using the stock pan? Or do I need to fab the = external oil sump? Chris ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Tracy Crook=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 5:01 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil tank Yep, but that is mostly guesswork. Mazda did have a recall for = foaming problems (oil level alarm) but don't know what they did to fix = it. Might have been just a reflash of the ECU to Ignore low oil = pressure : ) Or maybe a change to the oil low sense switch. Foaming = causes an oil pressure drop of around 10 psi when it happens. Mazda did not change the pan. I used a 2nd gen pan and an air = separator plate on my Renesis. Tracy Ed, Tracy didn't think the Renesis pan was deep enough. It might have = been total quantity, but I think it was more the sloshing and foam. A = deeper pan would eliminate this problem. Tracy, if this isn't right, please set me straight. Thanks for the answers. Now I can start fabricating. Chris ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ed Anderson=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 3:55 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil tank Just a question, Chris - why modify the Renesis oil Pan? Do you = feel you need additional oil?=20 Yes, from the oil pickup hole in the block. I put a gasket on the = engine side of the plate and then a tube through the plate into the = pickup hole. I made a fitting that used the two oil pickup bolt holes = and with a big drill bit make the underside of the hole through the = fitting a bit convex. I put the fitting over the tube, an "O" ring = around the tube, stick the tube through the hole in the plate and then = tighten the two bolts forcing the "O" ring against the tube and plate = giving me an air tight seal. I use a new "O" ring anytime I loosen the = fitting. I do the same for the tube end entering the sump. If you have = even a slight air leak, the pump won't producing sufficient suction to = lift the oil, so careful going is called for in fabricating this. Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: chris mallory=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 4:03 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil tank Thanks Ed, This is all very helpful! I'm looked at leaving the Renesis oil = pan installed. Tapping a hole in the bottom to let oil flow to the = sump. I'll mount the sump at the side of the engine, just below the = level of the oil pan. Then I'll put the pickup from the top, turn in 90 = into the side of the oil pan, using the oil level indicator hole. =20 Did you run one pickup line from the bottom of the engine, = through the plate into the top of the sump, and then seal up the hole = where it went through the plate? How did you set that part up? Thanks, Chris ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ed Anderson=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 10:58 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil tank Hi Chris, Rotary "hang out" is generally on Row 19 on the flight line = with cowls-off until 1330 then to the rotary engine tent for rest of = afternoon. My "Plugs Up" installation has the oil drain to the bottom = side of the block. The oil pan area is covered with a 3/16" aluminum = plate. Then the oil drains through holes (six I believe) in the bottom = of the plate and through a 2"x1" rectangular tube (running length of = plate). The rectangular tube is used to "stand-off" the "Sump" from the = plate so I can access the pan bolts in that area (otherwise the sump = would be flat up against the plate cover the oil pan holes in that area. = The oil drains through the six holes and into the sump which is a 4x4" = rectangular tube with plates welded on both ends and various fittings = and holes (such as the fill hole and dip still hole). I then extended the oil pickup tube through the side of the = plate and into the top of the 4x4 sump. The pickup actually goes = through a removal plate on the top of the sump, so I have access to the = screen on the bottom of the pickup tube. The tube is sealed with rubber = O rings where it goes through the plate and sump to ensure an air tight = seal - you do not want any air leaks. The system holds 4.3 quarts of oil (you could have more by = making the sump larger - but after 325 hours, my conclusion is you don't = need more - after all this is not an aircraft engine {:>)). Here are a couple of photos that make made this clearer. The = long blue tube is the oil filler, you can see the oil pickup arching out = of the plate and into the top of the sump. Hope this helps Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: chris mallory=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 9:48 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Oil tank My current problem: I don't want to take up the space below = the engine with the larger 13b oil pan. I was thinking of doing = something like Ed has. I can use the renesis pan as a collector or make = a blank out of alluminum, pipe the oil to a tank sitting on the side of = the engine, then plumb it back into the pump. =20 Ed, how does your system get the oil to the tank? How big = is the tank? How did you connect back to the pick-up? As always, any comments and constructive criticism are = welcome. Chris P.S. Sorry I missed everyone at Sun and Fun. Was there a = rotary hangout that I missed? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/ ------=_NextPart_000_0083_01C65FE6.7AEC4860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Tracy,
 
What do you think?  Is the extra 1/2 inch = from the=20 plate enough?  Can I get away with just using the stock pan?  = Or do I=20 need to fab the external oil sump?
 
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Tracy = Crook
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 = 5:01=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Oil = tank

Yep, but that is mostly guesswork.   Mazda did have a = recall=20 for foaming problems (oil level alarm) but don't know what they = did to=20 fix it.  Might have been just a reflash of the ECU to Ignore low = oil=20 pressure : )  Or maybe a change to the oil low sense = switch. =20 Foaming causes an oil pressure drop of around 10 psi when it = happens.
Mazda did not change the pan.  I used a 2nd gen pan and = an air=20 separator plate on my Renesis.
Tracy
Ed,
 
Tracy didn't think the Renesis pan = was deep=20 enough.  It might have been total quantity, but I think it was = more the=20 sloshing and foam.  A deeper pan would eliminate this=20 problem.
 
Tracy, if this isn't right, please = set me=20 straight.
 
Thanks for the answers.  Now I = can start=20 fabricating.
 
Chris
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 Ed Anderson
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Friday, April 14, = 2006 3:55=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Oil=20 tank

Just a question, Chris - why modify the = Renesis oil=20 Pan?  Do you feel you need additional oil?
 
Yes, from the oil pickup hole in the = block.  I=20 put a gasket on the engine side of the plate and then a tube = through the=20 plate into the pickup hole.  I made a fitting that used the = two oil=20 pickup bolt holes and with a big drill bit make the underside of = the hole=20 through the fitting a bit convex.  I put the fitting over the = tube,=20  an "O" ring around the tube, stick the tube through the hole = in the=20 plate and then tighten the two bolts forcing the "O" ring against = the tube=20 and plate giving me an air tight seal.  I use a new "O" ring = anytime=20 I loosen the fitting.  I do the same for the tube end = entering the=20 sump.  If you have even a slight air leak, the pump won't = producing=20 sufficient suction to lift the oil, so careful going is called for = in=20 fabricating this.
 
Ed
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 chris mallory
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Friday, April 14, = 2006 4:03=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Oil=20 tank

Thanks Ed,
 
This is all very helpful!  = I'm looked=20 at leaving the Renesis oil pan installed.  Tapping a hole = in the=20 bottom to let oil flow to the sump.  I'll mount the = sump at=20 the side of the engine, just below the level of the oil = pan.  Then=20 I'll put the pickup from the top, turn in 90 into the side = of the=20 oil pan, using the oil level indicator hole. 
Did you run one pickup line = from the bottom=20 of the engine, through the plate into the top of the sump, and = then seal=20 up the hole where it went through the plate?  How did you = set that=20 part up?
 
Thanks,
 
Chris
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 Ed Anderson =
To: Rotary motors in=20 aircraft
Sent: Friday, April 14, = 2006=20 10:58 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] = Re: Oil=20 tank

Hi Chris,
 
Rotary "hang out" is generally on Row = 19 on the=20 flight line with cowls-off until 1330 then to the rotary = engine tent=20 for rest of afternoon.
 
My "Plugs Up" installation has the oil = drain to=20 the bottom side of the block.  The oil pan area is = covered with a=20 3/16" aluminum plate.  Then the oil drains through holes = (six I=20 believe) in the bottom of the plate and through  a 2"x1"=20 rectangular tube (running length of plate).  The = rectangular tube=20 is used to "stand-off" the "Sump" from the plate so I = can access=20 the pan bolts in that area (otherwise the sump would be flat = up=20 against the plate cover the oil pan holes in that area.  = The oil=20 drains through the six holes and into the sump which is a 4x4" = rectangular tube with plates welded on both ends and various = fittings=20 and holes (such as the fill hole and dip still = hole).
 
I then extended the oil pickup tube = through the=20 side of the plate and into the top of the 4x4 sump.  The = pickup=20 actually goes through a removal plate on the top of the sump, = so I=20 have access to the screen on the bottom of the pickup = tube.  The=20 tube is sealed with rubber O rings where it goes through the = plate and=20 sump to ensure an air tight seal - you do not want any air=20 leaks.
 
The system holds 4.3 quarts of oil = (you could=20 have more by making the sump larger - but after 325 hours, my=20 conclusion is you don't need more - after all this is not an = aircraft=20 engine {:>)).
 
Here are a couple of photos that make = made this=20 clearer.  The long blue tube is the oil filler, you can = see the=20 oil pickup arching out of the plate and into the top of the=20 sump.
 
Hope this helps
 
Ed
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 chris mallory =
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Sent: Friday, April = 14, 2006=20 9:48 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] = Oil=20 tank

My current problem:  I = don't want=20 to take up the space below the engine with the larger 13b = oil=20 pan.  I was thinking of doing something like Ed = has.  I=20 can use the renesis pan as a collector or make a blank out = of=20 alluminum, pipe the oil to a tank sitting on the side of the = engine,=20 then plumb it back into the pump. 
 
Ed, how does your system = get the oil to=20 the tank?  How big is the tank?  How did you = connect back=20 to the pick-up?
 
As always, any comments and = constructive criticism are welcome.
 
Chris
 
P.S.  Sorry I missed = everyone at=20 Sun and Fun.  Was there a rotary hangout that I=20 missed?

--
Homepage:  = http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and=20 UnSub:  =20 = http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/
------=_NextPart_000_0083_01C65FE6.7AEC4860--