X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imo-m28.mx.aol.com ([64.12.137.9] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.6) with ESMTP id 917676 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 08 Jan 2006 14:05:20 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.12.137.9; envelope-from=Lehanover@aol.com Received: from Lehanover@aol.com by imo-m28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r6.3.) id q.158.5ee0c4f6 (3699) for ; Sun, 8 Jan 2006 14:04:32 -0500 (EST) From: Lehanover@aol.com Message-ID: <158.5ee0c4f6.30f2bc40@aol.com> Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 14:04:32 EST Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: First Engine Start To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1136747072" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5022 X-Spam-Flag: NO -------------------------------1136747072 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 1/8/2006 12:03:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, rlwhite@comcast.net writes: Thanks Bill, After reading the horror stories of engine starts without a load, I had vowed to not even try. For once I made the right choice. Maybe Tracy needs to add a rev limiter feature so that the engine won't run over 9000 rpm for those others that insist on doing it. Sounds like an easy software change to me. :) Anybody want to go over 9K? (Except Lynn) Bob W. Once years ago, a young fellow asked me to help him tune up his rotary at the track. I walked over and he fired up and revved his engine to a scream and it 4 cycled solid for a second. I backed away from the flywheel scatter zone, giving him the cut sign. The engine returned to idle, and ran normally, (for a Bridgeport) at 2,000 RPM). He thought the awful sound (of the rev limiter) was a tuning problem. With no load, from zero to the Moon is 1/4 second. The Moon is 59,000 miles past ruined engine. A rev limiter on both leading and trailing is required since either will take it past the other rev limiter with no load. I run two MSDs with 9,600 RPM chips. I like to hear it hit the limiters once in a while just to be sure the driver is trying real hard. With a prop mounted, damage is unlikely. A first start check list should confirm wheels chocked. Plane tied to immovable object. Throttle closed. Experienced pilot at the controls. Full up elevator. Toe brakes on. A positive method for shutting off ignition energy, with switch or breaker exposed and with a finger on that switch, or breaker. An adult standing by with a Co2 fire bottle with the pin pulled. Assume that the fuel system will leak and cause a fire. It will. Maybe not this time, but it will. Assume that oil pressure will drop to zero right after you look at it the first time. Maybe not this time, but it will. Lost prime, oil lines not filled, coolers not filled, sump not full, plastic pressure gage line melted in two, Fram car filter can split open, oil line not tightened fully. Assume that all of your help are blithering idiots. Including that imbecile you put in the cockpit. Explain at length that anyone seeing anything they even suspect as abnormal, should wave an arm overhead so as to alert the cockpit guy to shut it off. No other thoughts are to be transmitted in this fashion. Just shut it off. If somebody points at anything having forgotten the wave rule, shut it off. If somebody runs away, shut it off. If somebody puts both hands over their mouth and backs away slowly, shut it off To the pilot weight equivalent in the cockpit, anybody waves an arm, or you think you saw anything that may have looked even remotely like an arm waving, you shut it off. Shut it off after one minute no matter what. To check the water and to see if the shut it off scheme really works. And the number one killer of rotaries............................No water flow on start up. The pump is mounted high on the block. The air in the block takes several heat cycles to remove. A dose of air in the pump, stops flow cold. I hold one hand on the water pump outlet, and wait for one minute for heat at the outlet. No heat? shut it off and get the air out of the pump. Once heat starts to build, I take the cap off of the swirl pot and watch water enter the pot. The pump will stop no matter what the water temperature. So just because it gets hot means nothing. Let it run for one minute, and shut it down to check that water level at the top of the pump. It takes me three heat cycles to get all of the air out. And my system works great. Do all of this outside the hanger. That way all of the planes in the hanger will not be lost when the hanger goes up in flames. If you are alone, Don't even try it. Lynn E. Hanover -------------------------------1136747072 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 1/8/2006 12:03:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,=20 rlwhite@comcast.net writes:
<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size= =3D2>Thanks=20 Bill,

After reading the horror stories of engine starts without a l= oad,=20 I had
vowed to not even try.  For once I made the right choice.&nb= sp;=20 Maybe Tracy
needs to add a rev limiter feature so that the engine won't= run=20 over
9000 rpm for those others that insist on doing it.  Sounds li= ke=20 an easy
software change to me. :)  Anybody want to go over 9K?&nbs= p;=20 (Except Lynn)

Bob W.

 
Once years ago, a young fellow asked me to help him tune up his rotary=20= at=20 the track. I walked over and he fired up and revved his engine to a scream a= nd=20 it 4 cycled solid for a second. I backed away from the flywheel scatter zone= ,=20 giving him the cut sign.
 
The engine returned to idle, and ran normally, (for a Bridgeport) at 2,= 000=20 RPM).
 
He thought the awful sound (of the rev limiter) was a tuning problem.
With no load, from zero to the Moon is 1/4 second. The Moon is 59,= 000=20 miles past ruined engine.
 
A rev limiter on both leading and trailing is required since either wil= l=20 take it past the other rev limiter with no load. I run two MSDs with 9,600 R= PM=20 chips. I like to hear it hit the limiters once in a while just to be sure th= e=20 driver is trying real hard.
 
With a prop mounted, damage is unlikely.
 
A first start check list should confirm wheels chocked. Plane tied to=20 immovable object. Throttle closed. Experienced pilot at the controls. Full u= p=20 elevator. Toe brakes on. A positive method for shutting off ignition energy,= =20 with switch or breaker exposed and with a finger on that switch, or breaker.= An=20 adult standing by with a Co2 fire bottle with the pin pulled.
Assume that the fuel system will leak and cause a fire. It will. Maybe=20= not=20 this time, but it will.
 
Assume that oil pressure will drop to zero right after you look at it t= he=20 first time. Maybe not this time, but it will. Lost prime, oil lines not fill= ed,=20 coolers not filled, sump not full, plastic pressure gage line melted in two,= =20 Fram car filter can split open, oil line not tightened fully.
 
Assume that all of your help are blithering idiots. Including that imbe= cile=20 you put in the cockpit. Explain at length that anyone seeing anything they e= ven=20 suspect as abnormal, should wave an arm overhead so as to alert the cockpit=20= guy=20 to shut it off. No other thoughts are to be transmitted in this fashion. Jus= t=20 shut it off. If somebody points at anything having forgotten the wave rule,=20= shut=20 it off. If somebody runs away, shut it off. If somebody puts both hands over= =20 their mouth and backs away slowly, shut it off
 
To the pilot weight equivalent in the cockpit, anybody waves an arm, or= you=20 think you saw anything that may have looked even remotely like an arm waving= ,=20 you shut it off. Shut it off after one minute no matter what. To check the w= ater=20 and to see if the shut it off scheme really works.
 
 
 
And the number one killer of rotaries............................No wat= er=20 flow on start up.
 
The pump is mounted high on the block. The air in the block takes sever= al=20 heat cycles to remove. A dose of air in the pump, stops flow cold. I hold on= e=20 hand on the water pump outlet, and wait for one minute for heat at the outle= t.=20 No heat? shut it off and get the air out of the pump. Once heat starts to bu= ild,=20 I take the cap off of the swirl pot and watch water enter the pot. The pump=20= will=20 stop no matter what the water temperature. So just because it gets hot means= =20 nothing. Let it run for one minute, and shut it down to check that water lev= el=20 at the top of the pump. It takes me three heat cycles to get all of the air=20= out.=20 And my system works great.
 
Do all of this outside the hanger. That way all of the planes in the ha= nger=20 will not be lost when the hanger goes up in flames.  
 
If you are alone, Don't even try it.
 
Lynn E. Hanover
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