X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [24.25.9.103] (HELO ms-smtp-04-eri0.southeast.rr.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.3) with ESMTP id 865680 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 06 Dec 2005 15:44:59 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.103; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-024-074-025-165.carolina.res.rr.com [24.74.25.165]) by ms-smtp-04-eri0.southeast.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id jB6KiC1u023981 for ; Tue, 6 Dec 2005 15:44:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002101c5faa5$cef1d430$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Brake Fire Photo Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 15:44:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001E_01C5FA7B.E5E049D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C5FA7B.E5E049D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hear! Hear! Bill. It had never even occured to be (before hand) that having aluminum tube = interfacing with a frequently moving (caliper) part is probably not the = best of all worlds. Not withstanding the fact there are hundreds and = thousands of Rvs flying with this set up - there has also been several = brake fire incidents including some with reportedly consumed the = aircraft. Aluminum of course fatigues from motion fairly easily. = Fatigued aluminum breaks, breaks in pressurized tubes lead to atomized = and easily ignited mixtures which when combined with a low flash point = liquid can easily lead to a FIRE!! I can only conclude that when I was installing the aluminum tube I may = have worked hardened it getting it to bend around the axial as called = for to give it that flex coil, or the tube material could have been = defective or it could have been started by damage to the tube that I did = not detect. But as can be seen from the photo its clearly a fatigued = break with a section of tubing blown out. So I eliminated the tubing for SS steel braided hose -Yes, this hose = couldleak but most likely will not give way suddenly and leave me with = no brakes. I eliminated the low flash point hydraulic fluid with I feel = contributed to the fire. I just don't want to get bit twice by the = same dog. Ed A ----- Original Message -----=20 From: wrjjrs@aol.com=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 2:59 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Brake Fire Photo The thing to take from Ed's brake problem is to trust your judgment on = some things. There was no problem with his rotary engine here, rather a = so called, "Tried and true" standard part was what failed. I understand = why many people will follow plans to the letter and I don't argue with = that. The fact is that we often accept certified parts as gospel. My = advise to the group is that if something seems shaky, (like 200=B0F = flash point brake fluid), it is probably a holdover from early flying = days. investigate if it might be improved! I WILL NOT USE OLD STYLE = BRAKE FLUID IN MY AIRCRAFT. I plan to use a racing quality brake fluid. = If it is necessary I'll change the seals. Bill Jepson =20 -----Original Message----- From: Bob Perkinson To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 12:10:23 -0600 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Brake Fire Photo Boy Ed, all the excitement you have had kind of makes me wonder why I = am building and experimental airplane}:>) I am not sure I can handle = that much excitement, but I guess I will try. My-9 fuselage is in = Chicago today, sand should be in Nashville Friday, Bob Perkinson Hendersonville, TN. RV9 N658RP Reserved If nothing changes Nothing changes ------=_NextPart_000_001E_01C5FA7B.E5E049D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hear! Hear! Bill.
 
It had never even occured to be (before hand) = that having=20 aluminum tube interfacing with a frequently moving (caliper) part is = probably=20 not the best of all worlds.   Not withstanding the fact there = are=20 hundreds and thousands of Rvs flying with this set up - there has also = been=20 several brake fire incidents including some with reportedly consumed the = aircraft.  Aluminum of course fatigues from motion fairly = easily. =20   Fatigued aluminum breaks, breaks in pressurized tubes lead to = atomized=20 and easily ignited mixtures which when combined with a low flash point = liquid=20 can easily lead to a FIRE!!
 
I can only conclude that when I was installing = the=20 aluminum tube I may have worked hardened it getting it to bend around = the axial=20 as called for to give it that flex coil, or the tube material could have = been=20 defective or it could have been started by damage to the tube that I did = not=20 detect.  But as can be seen from the photo its clearly a fatigued = break=20 with a section of tubing blown out.
 
So I eliminated the tubing for SS steel braided = hose -Yes,=20 this  hose couldleak but most likely  will not give way = suddenly and=20 leave me with no brakes.  I eliminated the low flash point = hydraulic fluid=20 with I feel contributed to the fire.   I just don't want to = get bit=20 twice by the same dog.
 
Ed A
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 wrjjrs@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, = 2005 2:59=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Brake = Fire=20 Photo

The thing to take from Ed's brake=20 problem is to trust your judgment on some=20 things. There was no problem with his rotary engine here, rather = a so=20 called, "Tried and true" standard part was what failed. I understand=20 why many people will follow plans to the letter and I don't argue = with=20 that. The fact is that we often accept certified parts as gospel. My = advise to=20 the group is that if something seems shaky, (like 200=B0F flash point = brake=20 fluid), it is probably a holdover from early flying days. investigate = if it=20 might be improved! I WILL NOT USE OLD STYLE BRAKE FLUID IN MY = AIRCRAFT. I plan=20 to use a racing quality brake fluid. If it is necessary I'll change the seals.
Bill Jepson
 
-----Original = Message-----
From: Bob=20 Perkinson <bobperk@bellsouth.net>
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20 <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tue, 6 Dec = 2005 12:10:23=20 -0600
Subject: [FlyRotary] = Re: Brake=20 Fire Photo

Boy Ed, all the = excitement=20 you have had kind of makes me wonder why I am building and = experimental=20 airplane}:>)  I am not sure I can handle that much excitement, = but I=20 guess I will try. My-9  fuselage is in Chicago today, sand = should be=20 in Nashville Friday,
Bob Perkinson
Hendersonville, TN.
RV9=20 N658RP Reserved
If nothing=20 changes
Nothing changes
 
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