X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [24.25.9.101] (HELO ms-smtp-02-eri0.southeast.rr.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0.3) with ESMTP id 863937 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 05 Dec 2005 11:06:56 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.101; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-024-074-025-165.carolina.res.rr.com [24.74.25.165]) by ms-smtp-02-eri0.southeast.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id jB5G674p017537 for ; Mon, 5 Dec 2005 11:06:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000d01c5f9b5$c9fcec80$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Ed's Brakes... Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 11:06:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01C5F98B.E0D36D50" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C5F98B.E0D36D50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Mark, Yes, when I had my hard landing back in February on hard surface and it = became apparent it was going to be VERY hard, all I had time to do was = suck the stick back into my belly as far as it would go. It flashed = through my mind in that brief second to keep the nose gear from tucking = under - so I Kept the nose gear (and my expensive new prop) high in the = air when I hit. In fact, on the second (high) bounce the rudder fairing = contacted the tarmac. End result was the main gear took the damaging loads and no damage to = nose gear nor Prop. So while the training wheel up front has some = considerable benefits (I was able to get on the binders hard enough to = leave rubber for 300 ft during my aborted take off), there is the draw = back- in that you don't want to hit on it hard enough to cause it to = tuck. A depression in a grass runway ditto. And anytime operating on = anything other than a hard surface you have to be aware of the = potential hazards of holes as mentioned by several. Applies to tail = draggers and nose wheel types as far as that goes. Another thing I did was back in 1998 when Van offered a beefier nose = gear due to a few RV-6A nose gear failures, was to replace the old gear = and add stiffeners to the nose gear as well as the main gear. When = first landing with the beefier nose gear, I had the sensation that the = nose wheel was "tucking" and adding the stiffener eliminated that. =20 When I examined the damage to the main gear, the fiberglass reinforced = wood strips used as stiffeners were broke - but, they may have been the = margin that kept worst from happening. I had expected to see the = impressions of the top of my wheel pants in the underside of the wings = {:>) However, I acknowledge that Van now says the stiffeners are no longer = necessary - but I like them. Your mileage may vary Ed A ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark R Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 9:00 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ed's Brakes... There was a similar 6A landing accident here in central Texas just a = few weeks ago with a worse outcome. When the nose wheel sank into some = soft soil, the nut on the front caught, bending the nose gear back, = flipping the airplane onto its back. Needless to say, there wasn't much = left that was airworthy. =20 =20 Mark S. Lancair ES (large nosewheel) -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of DLOMHEIM@aol.com Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2005 5:30 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Ed's Brakes... =20 Ed wrote: =20 > "But, with a training wheel up front, you can reallllllyyyyy get on = the binders hard without worry". =20 Not wishing in anyway to "nit pick" the above statement but simply = wanting RVers with "A" models to remember that getting onto the binders = too hard on grass could end up ruining your day. About two years ago a = local pilot landed his 8A on a grass strip with some dips in it. He = possibly was a bit too hot and also long with the result that he really = got onto the "binders" which then caused the nose to squat down. = Simultaneously to this the nose wheel encountered a shallow depression = resulting in the nose gear bending back and prop striking the soft = ground. Needles to say his flying ended for a next few days until he = ordered in a new front gear leg, repaired his front wheel fairing, and = installed a new prop. =20 Doug Lomheim RV-9A, finishing kit =20 ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C5F98B.E0D36D50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Mark,
 
Yes, when I had my hard landing back in February = on hard=20 surface and it became apparent it was going to be VERY hard, all I had = time to=20 do was suck the stick back into my belly as far as it would go.  It = flashed=20 through my mind in that brief second to keep the nose gear from tucking = under -=20 so I  Kept the nose gear (and my expensive new prop) high in the = air when I=20 hit. In fact, on the second (high) bounce the rudder fairing contacted = the=20 tarmac.
 
End result was the main gear took the damaging = loads and=20 no damage to nose gear nor Prop.  So while  the training = wheel up=20 front has some considerable benefits (I was able to get on the binders = hard=20 enough to leave rubber for 300 ft during my aborted take off), there is = the draw=20 back- in  that you don't want to hit on it hard enough to cause it = to=20 tuck.  A depression in a grass runway ditto.   And = anytime=20 operating on anything other than a hard  surface you have to = be aware=20 of the potential hazards of holes as mentioned by several.  Applies = to tail=20 draggers and nose wheel types as far as that goes.
 
Another thing I did was back in 1998 when Van = offered a=20 beefier nose gear due to a few RV-6A nose gear failures, was to replace = the old=20 gear and  add stiffeners to the nose gear as well as the main gear. = When=20 first landing with the beefier nose gear, I had the sensation that the = nose=20 wheel was "tucking" and adding the stiffener eliminated that. =20
 
When I examined the damage to the main = gear, the=20 fiberglass reinforced wood strips used as stiffeners were broke - but, = they may=20 have been the margin that kept worst from happening. I had expected to = see the=20 impressions of the top of my wheel pants in the underside of the wings=20 {:>)
 
 
However, I acknowledge that Van now says the = stiffeners=20 are no longer necessary  - but I like them.  Your mileage may=20 vary
 
Ed A
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Mark R Steitle =
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 = 9:00=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Ed's=20 Brakes...

There was a = similar=20 6A landing accident here in central Texas just a few weeks ago with a = worse=20 outcome.  When the nose wheel sank into some soft soil, the nut = on the=20 front caught, bending the nose gear back, flipping the airplane onto = its=20 back.  Needless to say, there wasn=92t much left that was = airworthy. =20   

 

Mark=20 S.

Lancair ES = (large=20 nosewheel)

From: Rotary=20 motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = DLOMHEIM@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, December 03, = 2005 5:30=20 PM
To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary]=20 Ed's Brakes...

 

Ed=20 wrote:

 

> "But, = with a=20 training wheel up front, you can reallllllyyyyy get on the binders = hard=20 without worry".

 

Not = wishing in=20 anyway to "nit pick" the above statement=20 but simply wanting RVers with "A" models to = remember that=20 getting onto the binders too hard on grass could end = up ruining your=20 day.  About two years ago a local pilot landed his 8A = on a=20 grass strip with some dips in it.  He possibly was a = bit too=20 hot and also long with the result that he really got onto = the=20 "binders" which then caused the nose to = squat down. =20 Simultaneously to this the nose=20 wheel encountered a shallow depression resulting = in=20 the nose gear bending back and prop striking the soft=20 ground.  Needles to say his flying ended for a next few = days=20 until he ordered in a new front gear leg, repaired his front = wheel=20 fairing, and installed a new prop.

 

Doug=20 Lomheim

RV-9A, = finishing=20 kit   =20

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