Sender: <marv@lancaironline.net> (Marvin Kaye)
To: flyrotary
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:05:40 -0400
Message-ID: <redirect-1831006@logan.com>
From: peon@pacific.net.au
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Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: EWP Tech Data Take 1,000,000 ...
Reply-to: leon@promotorsport.com.au
Priority: normal
In-reply-to: <list-1830879@logan.com>

Hey Mike,

See comments below marked ##

On 17 Oct 2002, at 19:07, Mike Wills wrote:

> Hey Leon,
> 
>   This discussion just seems to go round and round with no end. I'm
>   not one 
> of those theoretical engineering types (but I do work with a bunch and
> I make them prove their theories everyday). You are willing to bet a
> holiday that you are correct. You're asking your potential customers
> to bet their lives. 

##
No.  I'm not in the least bit interested in convincing people,  against 
their will,  to buy the pump off me.  The whole point of this 
discussion is that certain people seem to think that they don't work 
as advertised,  and give all sorts of erroneous theoretical reasons 
why they can't work.

##
Now I happen to KNOW that they work on cars and boats,  and 
engines on dynos.  I don't know if they will work on an aircraft,  as I 
haven't tested one yet.

When you do your chassis dyno testing if the
> engine goes pop it makes a little mess. When I do my testing if the
> engine goes pop I end up dead in a wrecking yard (that's what is at
> the end of my runway). I know the stock pump will cool the engine and
> there are already enough other variables and potential pitfalls in the
> first flight of an auto conversion that I see no reason to add to the
> risk by trying something unproven. 

##
I couldn't agree more!

>Particularly when there appears to
> be sound engineering reasons to indicate that it cant work.

##
Totally disagree on this.  Seems that more than one person is 
severely challenged with high school physics,  and can't do simple 
math!  Also seems like more than one person doesn''t understand 
how a centrifugal pump will consume enormous amounts of power 
when you throttle it (at high revs with a sharp edged annular 
constriction called a thermostat)  

> 
>   If you really want to prove your point, why not get together with
>   someone 
> who already has a proven functional cooling system with the stock
> Mazda pump in an aircraft and install the Davies Craig pump on that as
> a testbed? 

##
Mike,  you are missing the point.  People are saying that they don't 
work.  I'm NOT trying to convice ANYONE to fit them to aircraft.  
My WHOLE point is that the people who say they don't and can't 
work are just plain wrong.

Ian Beadle lives down under; perhaps he'd be willing. Or
> perhaps Ed or Tracy would be willing. 

##
No real need.  I'm working with a guy who has a Velocity and I'm 
doing ALL the development work on the firewall rearward stuff..  It 
should be ready for ground runs in about 9 months,  and will 
probably fly within a year.  So by all means just wait.  

##
Please understand that I'm not trying to sell the stuff to anyone 
who can't see the advantages and who doesn't want to buy them.

##
It's just that all the theoretical NON sense and BS that has been 
flying around these lists for over a year that has given me the pip!

>Perhaps this could be done
> similar to the great muffler test on Tracy's airplane with a bunch of
> us contributing $ to the cause. I know I'd be willing to contribute to
> such a test. But in my mind its only going to be conclusive if it
> flies on an airplane, not a dyno or a race car. And it would be more
> educational if tested on an existing platform to get conclusive before
> and after results.

##
Couldn't agree more!  However,  you will need some data logging 
equipment to collect before and after data for it to be meaningful.  
My Motec and Autonics ECUs have good datalogging facilities.

I'm also putting the finishing touches to a stand alone 
omprehensive data logger here,  so I can do meaningful before and 
after tests on any engine,  irrespecitive of the engine management 
system.  ((Like my carburettored 13B Series III RX7)

So do any of you guys have access to a decent data logger?  I 
know there was some discussion at "The Other Place",  about data 
loggers. Did that ever materialise,  or is it still "theoretical"??

> 
>   Who else is willing to put their $ where their mouth is? How about
>   you 
> Leon? Will you kick in 10% to prove your point? 

##
If someone is willing to do the testing on an already flying aircraft,  
I'd be happy to kick in HALF of the cost of the units (pump and 
controller)!  I'll even supply the necessary adaptor to the engine 
block.   

##
Like I said,  two weeks all expenses paid holiday in Sydney (and a 
refund of the cost of the pump and controller) awaits anyone who 
can prove conclusively that they don't work as advertised.  Can't be 
any fairer than that..  

If you are correct
> you'll sell a bunch of these. Ten of us at $65AUD (what's that in
> US$?)

##

The pump and controller are $550 AUD and airmail postage is $65 
AUD.  Total is $615 AUD.  I'll contribute the $315 AUD.  That 
leaves $300 AUD,  and @ 55 c (approx) to the USD,  that's about 
$165 USD to split up 10 ways.

The deal is that the pump remains my property until fully paid for,  
or is returned for a refund of your contributions.  For the test to be 
meaningful,  I also require it to be properly data logged before and 
after with a calibrated data logger (your expense at your end).

>should do it. Are any of you guys flying willing to provide your
> airplane as a testbed?

##
Any takers?? 

Leon Promet
leon@promotorsport.com.au


> 
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