X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [199.185.220.220] (HELO priv-edtnes56.telusplanet.net) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0c5) with ESMTP id 776462 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 22 Oct 2005 03:15:40 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=199.185.220.220; envelope-from=haywire@telus.net Received: from Endurance ([154.20.245.217]) by priv-edtnes56.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.6.01.04.04 201-2131-118-104-20050224) with SMTP id <20051022071447.RYYU24908.priv-edtnes56.telusplanet.net@Endurance> for ; Sat, 22 Oct 2005 01:14:47 -0600 From: "Todd Bartrim" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: Aeroquip AQP Socketless racing hose question Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2005 00:14:44 -0700 Message-ID: <00ad01c5d6d8$4818c4f0$0101a8c0@Endurance> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00AE_01C5D69D.9BB9ECF0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00AE_01C5D69D.9BB9ECF0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_00AF_01C5D69D.9BB9ECF0" ------=_NextPart_001_00AF_01C5D69D.9BB9ECF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MessageI asked about the heat shrink clamps, and was told in no uncertain terms NOT to use ANY type clamp. As other have mentioned, the hose works on the Chinese handcuff principal. Putting a clamp, particularly toward the end of the fitting actually prevents the hose from working as designed. The operating pressure on the FC332 hose is 250 psi, with the burst pressure listed at 1000 psi. The shop said they blew one as a test, and it blew at 1200 psi. The hose itself blew in the middle, and the fitting remained sealed. This is good info and confirms what I know about it.... but I really don't know about Chinese handcuffs, although I'm wondering where you learned about them?? :-) As for the inspector, I'll have some documentation handy that shows the intended usage of the hose. No inspector is going to insist that you go against Aeroquip's own recommendation for usage of their product. Let's face it Aeroquip knows their product better than the inspector does :-) Yeah, this is what I figured too and I had all kinds of documentation to back-up my statement that clamps were unnecessary, but he didn't care. I think he just wanted to put a check mark in the box beside hose clamps on his inspection list. So we compromised by using the safety wire. Actually I must admit that I did have a couple of spots where this hose is used but doesn't connect to the standard push-lok fittings in which case I did use a hose clamp to connect. I've slowly been changing these to eliminate them. An example would be the fuel filters & fuel pumps. After the last round of discussion about fuel systems failures after your friend met his unfortunate demise, I decided to work to eliminate any weak points in my system. I was able to get out to the airport and I removed these items. I've machined M8 x 3/8 Sweglok tube fittings for the pumps and cut of the hose barbs from the fuel filters, replacing them with a compression nut & ferrule. This allows direct connection of the filter to the pump and hoses connect directly with the proper fittings. It is now much cleaner and secure. Now if I can just find the time to go back out and reinstall them. BTW, when was the last time you flew your plane Todd? Even without a flying plane, I think I'm holding my own with you in flight hours :-) Don't make me repost pictures of the BUC... :-) This is becoming a real sore spot for me. I have just over 50 hours on it, but it's been now just over a year since I've flown it. I've had a real busy year with a short turn-around between tech school sessions resulting in 4 months away, even this past week was spent in a new course for Foxboro's Intelligent Automation, then add in a new kid, new house, building a new large shop, maintenance shutdowns, etc, etc, but by far the biggest factor has been the weather. I can't remember weather this bad in 37 years of living here. here is a clip from this mornings e-weather Today Tonight Tomorrow Sunday Monday Tuesday This has been the same report everyday this summer. And every time the weather forecast was wrong it was even worse than predicted. Since I have only slightly more flight hours than my plane does, it's not really desirable weather for me to fly in. Now it's been so long since I flew that I won't fly it again until my flying buddy/instructor is available to come up and do a few check rides, to ensure that I've still got it, but he's off on a new flying job and won't be available for awhile. 3 days ago a C-185 enroute from Alaska to Arizona disappeared while flying through a mountain pass about 100 miles north of here in this crappy weather, which has cooled my enthusiasm for getting back up in the air until we get some real improvement. It's not like I don't have anything to else to do anyways. Heck, I hardly have time to be a lurker on this list, but I try :-) So that's my excuse and I'm stickin' to it. At least we don't get hurricanes up here. Todd Bartrim (sick & tired of rain & mud) RV9Endurance 13B Turbo Rotary C-FSTB http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm "The world will always have a place for those that bring hard work and determination to the things they do." ------=_NextPart_001_00AF_01C5D69D.9BB9ECF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
I asked about the heat shrink clamps, and = was told in=20 no uncertain terms NOT to use ANY type clamp.  As other have = mentioned, the=20 hose works on the Chinese handcuff principal.  Putting a = clamp,=20 particularly toward the end of the fitting actually prevents the = hose from=20 working as designed.  The operating pressure on the FC332 hose is = 250 psi,=20 with the burst pressure listed at 1000 psi.  The shop said they = blew one as=20 a test, and it blew at 1200 psi.  The hose itself blew in the = middle,=20 and the fitting remained sealed.  
This is=20 good info and confirms what I know about it.... but I really don't = know about=20 Chinese handcuffs, although I'm wondering where you learned about = them??=20 :-) 
 
As for the inspector, I'll have some = documentation=20 handy that shows the intended usage of the hose.  No = inspector is=20 going to insist that you go against Aeroquip's own recommendation = for=20 usage of their product.  Let's face it Aeroquip knows = their=20 product better than the inspector does = :-)
Yeah, this is=20 what I figured too and I had all kinds of documentation to = back-up my=20 statement that clamps were unnecessary, but he didn't care. I think he = just=20 wanted to put a check mark in the box beside hose clamps on his = inspection=20 list. So we compromised by using the safety=20 wire.
    Actually I must = admit that=20 I did have a couple of spots where this hose is used but doesn't = connect to=20 the standard push-lok fittings in which case I did use a hose clamp to = connect. I've slowly been changing these to eliminate them. An example = would=20 be the fuel filters & fuel pumps. After the last round of = discussion about=20 fuel systems failures after your friend met his unfortunate demise, I = decided=20 to work to eliminate any weak points in my system. I was able to get = out to=20 the airport and I removed these items. I've machined M8 x 3/8 Sweglok = tube=20 fittings for the pumps and cut of the hose barbs from the fuel = filters,=20 replacing them with a compression nut & ferrule. This allows = direct=20 connection of the filter to the pump and hoses connect directly with = the=20 proper fittings. It is now much cleaner and secure. Now if I can just = find the=20 time to go back out and reinstall=20 them.
 
BTW, when was the last time you flew = your plane=20 Todd?  Even without a flying plane, I think I'm holding my own=20 with you in flight hours = :-)  
Don't=20 make me repost pictures of the BUC... =20 :-)
This is becoming a real sore spot for me. I have just = over 50=20 hours on it, but it's been now just over a year since I've flown it. = I've had=20 a real busy year with a short turn-around between tech school sessions = resulting in 4 months away, even this past week was spent in a new = course for=20 Foxboro's Intelligent Automation, then add in a new kid, new = house,=20 building a new large shop, maintenance shutdowns, etc, etc, but by far = the=20 biggest factor has been the weather. I can't remember weather this bad = in 37=20 years of living here. here is a clip from this mornings e-weather=20
Today Tonight Tomorrow Sunday Monday Tuesday
3D"Chance
3D"Chance
3D"Chance
3D"Chance
3DShowers
3DRain=20
This has = been the same=20 report everyday this summer. And every time the weather forecast was = wrong it=20 was even worse than predicted. Since I have only slightly more=20 flight hours than my plane does, it's not really desirable = weather for me=20 to fly in. Now it's been so long since I flew that I won't fly it = again until=20 my flying buddy/instructor is available to come up and do a few check = rides,=20 to ensure that I've still got it, but he's off on a new flying job and = won't=20 be available for awhile. 3 days ago a C-185 enroute from Alaska = to=20 Arizona disappeared while flying through a mountain pass about 100 = miles north=20 of here in this crappy weather, which has cooled my enthusiasm for = getting=20 back up in the air until we get some real improvement. It's not like I = don't=20 have anything to else to do anyways. Heck, I hardly have time to be a = lurker=20 on this list, but I try :-)
    So=20 that's my excuse and I'm stickin' to it. At least we don't get = hurricanes up=20 here.
 
Todd Bartrim     (sick & tired of rain &=20 mud)  
 
RV9Endurance
13B Turbo Rotary
C-FSTB
http://www3.telus.= net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
 
         &nb= sp;  =20 "The world will always have a place for those that bring hard work and = determination to the things they=20 = do."
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