X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from [201.225.225.169] (HELO cwpanama.net) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0c5) with ESMTP id 773096 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 23:28:15 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=201.225.225.169; envelope-from=rijakits@cwpanama.net Received: from [201.224.93.110] (HELO usuarioq3efog0) by frontend3.cwpanama.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.10) with SMTP id 50135037 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 18 Oct 2005 22:44:14 -0500 Message-ID: <00c901c5d45c$ea8917e0$6e5de0c9@usuarioq3efog0> From: "rijakits" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: flyrotary_Web_Archive Re: Banishment Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 22:26:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00C5_01C5D433.009C21A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00C5_01C5D433.009C21A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi John, it was me, Thomas J. babling below, don't blame Monty for it! ----- Original Message ----- From: John Slade To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 10:25 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: flyrotary_Web_Archive Re: Banishment Hi Monty, ( I admit I am NOT a fan of EWP quite yet...., however stand to be corrected) I think Rusty used one with success in hot weather. I'm also waiting to see the EWP prove itself, but at least over here we're open to the possibility. I believe Rusty's system still kept the engine driven WP in addition to the EWP. Rusty? # NACA scoops work: Well I guess you if you make them big enough Let me rephrase, then. The Cozy plans NACA scoop is sufficient to cool a turbo rotary. of course, BUT there are better and more efficient ways to get cooling air in! I think, for a pusher, the NACA is the least draggy solution we know. I may be wrong. But one should take advantage of his list of resources and really dig in IMHO There's too much untruth and incorrect / unproven theory buried in the truth to make the exercise worthwhile I am refering to the references to the books of Kuchemann & Weber and Kays & London. It is "hardcore" reading but at least some of it "seems to make sense" even for the layman. Remember the inventors of the NACA-duct did recommend to NOT use it as a pressure-recovery intake (what we need for our our car style radiators) Unfortunately they "look" rather sporty, so we fall for them.... Also even the P-51 style scoop doesn't do the best for efficiency. In one of the books it is mentioned somewhere (IIRC), but there were one or two testships with modified scoops (according to K&L I think....), which improved efficiency over the last production system. However that one was good enough, so the new one never made it to the masses and then WW2 was over and the jets on the doorstep. Once you get really into aerodynamics concerning effiecient cooling, it starts to hurt seeing people fight for cooling but having bad/inefficient systems. As mentioned before, for me the road will be the fun, not so much the destination, so when I get to it I will really enjoy doing lots of experiments! Don't hold your breath though....:) Now PL the pope, made me look at these books (actually only parts of it...). Also remember (again...) these facts do not come from grumpy old man, but are facts from respectable sources - he just pointed the finger in the right direction. # Earth round?? Obviously you never fell off the edge yet!! Actually it has the shape of a trochoid!! - bet you didn't know that! I did say almost. :) Right! Regards, John Saludos, Thomas ------=_NextPart_000_00C5_01C5D433.009C21A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi John,
it was me, Thomas J. babling = below, don't=20 blame Monty for it!
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 John=20 Slade
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 = 10:25=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re:=20 flyrotary_Web_Archive Re: Banishment

Hi=20 Monty,
( I admit I am NOT a fan of EWP quite yet...., = however=20 stand to be corrected) 
I think Rusty used one with success in hot weather. I'm also = waiting to=20 see the EWP prove itself, but at least over here we're open to = the=20 possibility.
I believe=20 Rusty's system still kept the engine driven WP in addition to the EWP. = Rusty?
 # NACA=20 scoops work: Well I guess you if you make them big enough 
Let=20 me rephrase, then. The Cozy plans NACA scoop is sufficient to cool a = turbo=20 rotary.
 
 of course,=20 BUT there are better and more efficient ways to get cooling air = in! 
I=20 think, for a pusher, the NACA is the least draggy solution we = know. I may=20 be wrong.
 
But one should take advantage of = his list=20 of resources and really dig in 
IMHO=20 There's too much untruth and incorrect / unproven theory buried = in the=20 truth to make the exercise worthwhile
I am=20 refering to the references to the books of Kuchemann & = Weber and Kays=20 & London. It is "hardcore" reading but at least some of it "seems = to make=20 sense" even for the layman.
Remember=20 the inventors of the NACA-duct did recommend to NOT use it as a=20 pressure-recovery intake (what we need for our our car style=20 radiators)
Unfortunately they "look" rather sporty, so = we fall=20 for them....
Also even=20 the P-51 style scoop doesn't do the best for efficiency. In one of the = books=20 it is mentioned somewhere (IIRC), but there were one or two testships = with=20 modified scoops (according to K&L I think....), which improved = efficiency=20 over the last production system. However that one was good enough, so = the new=20 one never made it to the masses and then WW2 was over and the jets on = the=20 doorstep.
Once you=20 get really into aerodynamics concerning effiecient cooling, it starts = to hurt=20 seeing people fight for cooling but having bad/inefficient=20 systems.
As=20 mentioned before, for me the road will be the fun, not so much the=20 destination, so when I get to it I will really enjoy doing lots of=20 experiments!
Don't hold=20 your breath though....:)
Now PL the=20 pope, made me look at these books (actually only parts of it...).=20
Also=20 remember (again...) these facts do not come from grumpy old man, but = are facts=20 from respectable sources - he just pointed the finger in the right=20 direction.
# Earth round?? Obviously you never fell off = the edge=20 yet!! Actually it has the shape of a trochoid!! - = bet you=20 didn't know that! 
I did say = almost.=20 :)
Right!
Regards,
John
Saludos,
Thomas
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