Mailing List flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message #27036
From: David Carter <dcarter11@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] flyrotary Displacement
Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 23:41:09 -0600
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Ah, I can contain myself no more!  I must pick up on the statement, "how to make the stupid thing sound more like a Merlin and less like the model airplane from hell. . ." 
 
When I attended the Shady Bend flyin time before last, I was surprised at the sound as several of the rotary RVs flew around the patch.  Sounded like big model airplane engines!!  Laura didn't encouage me in my perception - don't think she thought it was quite appropriate a comparison.
 
Well, when my RV-6 is finally finished some day in the future, it is going to have a set of HUGE woofer speakers placed strategically around the cockpit, with sound aimed "outwards" toward bystanders.  Just as I start to crank the engine, I'll turn on my "Round Sounds" CD and blast the crowd with the magical gruff rumble of an F4U Corsair, or a Stearman, or. . .  - and hopefully drown out the idle noise of the rotary.  Same on takeoff - I'll skip to a track with "full takeoff power of the Corsair" as I advance the throttle for takeoff!
 
David
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 17, 2005 9:27 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] flyrotary Displacement

Okay this one is for David, Ed, Bob and Ken because they are actually having an adult discussion with me on this. Unlike the Pope. For everybody else, If this hurts your head (it is beginning to hurt mine) just skip down to the last few paragraphs.
 
 
I am looking at this from a thermo standpoint as a mechanical engineer. If I were going to analyze this and make the numbers work theoretically. You have to break this down to it's smallest component.
 
To do this you follow one INDIVIDUAL induction, compression, expansion cycle from beginning to end. It does not matter what kind of hardware we are looking at.
 
When I look at a single cylinder 4 cycle engine. It takes two complete crank revolutions to complete this cycle on some displacement of air.
 
I draw a PV diagram for this and get the work required to induct, compress, expand and exhaust. Some of these terms are negative, some are positive. The balance is the work output for this ONE cycle and individual cylinder.
 
For a multi cylinder engine, these work outputs are all just added together at different phase angles based on the crank throws.
 
 
Now for the  wankel:
 
It takes one complete revolution of the ROTOR to complete a cycle for a single rotor face (same charge) and perform the previous analysis. The eshaft will rotate 3 times for each rotor rev..
 
The additional rotor faces are just like additional cylinders added on to a single cylinder engine. The mechanism for extracting power is a bit more arcane but it is the same thing. Stick on another rotor 180 degrees out of phase and it is the same thing. 3 more cylinders.
 
So you are correct the 3.9L 6 cyl equivalent engine will rotate at 2/3 the wankel speed not 1/3 as I misstated. And that matches with practice, a well tuned 240 cubic inch 4 cycle multi cylinder engine spinning at 6000 rpm (8500*2/3) is capable of making around 240 hp. Likewise the Wankel makes the same kind of power at 8500 shaft rpm. with the same number of cycles performed on the same amount of air charges as a 6 cyl engine for a given amount of time.
 
Likewise, keeping the rpm the same: a 2.6 liter 4 cylinder at 8500 rpm can make 240 hp. Or how about a two cylinder 1.3 liter 2 cycle, or a .65 one cycle.
 
Your argument of one packet in one packet out only works from a black box standpoint, you cannot analyze what happens in the black box using this approach. You could pick any combination of rpm, cylinders, and cylinder volume that gives the same number of events per unit time on the same mass flow and say it was an equivalent engine. So you are also correct that you could have any number of rotor faces and get the same result (there actually are such engines in theory using the same math as the wankel with different ratios of gearing and rotor faces)
 
The statement about not understanding pretend RPM is correct. It is not revolutions per unit time that matter, or mass flow per unit time, but volumetric and pressure changes on each packet per unit time.
 
To have thermodynamic equivalence, the engine must be doing the same thing to the working fluid per packet per time. If you do this you can actually integrate the rate of change of volume per unit time and see how the Otto process is performed in the rotary vs the crank and piston engine. Varying rates of compression/expansion at different times lead to different efficiencies and cylinder/chamber pressures-ie stroke to rod ratio.
 
I have changed my mind- it is now a .325L half cycle engine.
 
I'm all spent on this subject. Call it whatever you want as long as it gets the desired result.
 
What is really important to all of us is to figure out what the heck to do with the damnable packets after they are (vigorously!!!) expelled using your equivalent cycle of choice. OR-how to make the stupid thing sound more like a Merlin and less like the model airplane from hell with something less than a 30 lb boat anchor or the size of a 30 gal drum.
 
That is what I am working on now. I have little hope for the outcome. I will however bare all at Tracy's in full view of the public, you can witness my triumph, failure, or puzzled looks.
 
 
Monty
 
 
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