X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from imo-d20.mx.aol.com ([205.188.139.136] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 5.0c1) with ESMTP id 681399 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 09:30:55 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.188.139.136; envelope-from=Lehanover@aol.com Received: from Lehanover@aol.com by imo-d20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v38_r4.1.) id q.1ef.42c46175 (3988) for ; Thu, 25 Aug 2005 09:30:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Lehanover@aol.com Message-ID: <1ef.42c46175.303f21e0@aol.com> Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 09:30:08 EDT Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Flamible brake fluid To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1124976608" X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5017 X-Spam-Flag: NO -------------------------------1124976608 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 In a message dated 8/25/2005 1:28:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, =20 WRJJRS@aol.com writes: Besides DOT 4 silicone fluid which has the advantage of not harming paint,=20= I=20 have been using various synthetics in my race bikes for years which are goo= d=20 to better than 600=B0F! I have heard some older auto fluids are corrosive t= o=20 aluminum but with the number of aluminum components on modern cars it MUST=20= be=20 less common. I have had all sorts of ALUMINUM BRAKE PARTS including master=20 cylinders on my bikes and never seen ANY problem. The aircraft fluid is sim= ply=20 stupid when compared to modern auto fluids. I think most compatibility problems went away when Girling quit using =20 natural rubber seals and vegetable oil fluids in their products (British car= s still=20 stuck in the 30s).=20 =20 Less than a second into serious braking the rotor temps will be well past =20 the 400 Degree flash point of the "New MIL-Spec" fluid. =20 If there were such a problem, you could drop an old seal into a jar of the=20 proposed fluid for several months to see the result. Any Hot Rod shop has =20 fluids in the 550 degree (Lockheed) to 600+ degree (Wilwood) wet boiling point. Obviously the flash points are =20 well above that, but you could contact the Manufacturers and ask. Just don't= =20 mention aircraft. =20 When you see the rotors on the circle track racers flashing to bright orang= e=20 and spit sparks twice each lap, for 400 miles, does it make you think these= =20 boys know about brake fluid.=20 =20 I have raced with silicone and liked the nonboiling feature. It is difficul= t=20 to get a good solid pedal because silicone retains air for long time. It is= =20 also thick enough that power bleeding with a pressurized master cylinder=20 gives the best result. Power bleeding from the caliper end is also a good m= ethod.=20 In any case not moving the master cylinder during bleeding will give better= =20 results. All non silicone fluids absorb water from the air at a known rate.= =20 If a small amount of that water flashes to steam during braking, the next t= ime=20 the pressure on the pedal is released, the remaining steam pressure will=20 push the fluid back through the master cylinder and leave that system usele= ss.=20 =20 I use the Lockheed 550 and bleed the brakes to new fluid every two races. =20 Never had a brake problem. =20 If you wait for the FAA to figure anything out, you will be too old to fly. =20 Lynn E. Hanover -------------------------------1124976608 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

In a message dated 8/25/2005 1:28:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 WRJJRS@aol.com writes:

<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size= =3D2>Besides=20 DOT 4 silicone fluid which has the advantage of not harming paint, I have=20= been=20 using various synthetics in my race bikes for years which are good to bett= er=20 than 600=B0F! I have heard some older auto fluids are corrosive to aluminu= m but=20 with the number of aluminum components on modern cars it MUST be less comm= on.=20 I have had all sorts of ALUMINUM BRAKE PARTS including master cylinders on= my=20 bikes and never seen ANY problem. The aircraft fluid is simply stupid when= =20 compared to modern auto fluids.

I think most compatibility problems went away when Girling quit using=20 natural rubber seals and vegetable oil fluids in their products (British car= s=20 still stuck in the 30s).

Less than a second into serious braking the rotor temps will be well pa= st=20 the 400 Degree flash point of the "New MIL-Spec" fluid.

If there were such a problem, you could drop an old seal into a ja= r of=20 the proposed fluid for several months to see the result. Any Hot Rod shop ha= s=20 fluids in the 550 degree (Lockheed)

to 600+ degree (Wilwood) wet boiling point. Obviously the flash points=20= are=20 well above that, but you could contact the Manufacturers and ask. Just don't= =20 mention aircraft.

When you see the rotors on the circle track racers flashing to bright=20 orange and spit sparks twice each lap, for 400 miles, does it make you think= =20 these boys know about brake fluid.

I have raced with silicone and liked the nonboiling feature. It is=20 difficult to get a good solid pedal because silicone retains air for lo= ng=20 time. It is also thick enough that power bleeding with a pressurized master=20 cylinder gives the best result. Power bleeding from the caliper end is also=20= a=20 good method. In any case not moving the master cylinder during bleeding will= =20 give better results. All non silicone fluids absorb water from the air at a=20 known rate. If a small amount of that water flashes to steam during braking,= the=20 next time the pressure on the pedal is released, the remaining steam pressur= e=20 will push the fluid back through the master cylinder and leave that system=20 useless.

I use the Lockheed 550 and bleed the brakes to new fluid every two race= s.=20 Never had a brake problem.

If you wait for the FAA to figure anything out, you will be too old to=20 fly.

Lynn E. Hanover

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