X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com Return-Path: Received: from m12.lax.untd.com ([64.136.30.75] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3.4) with SMTP id 988320 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 07:06:35 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=64.136.30.75; envelope-from=alwick@juno.com Received: from m12.lax.untd.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by m12.lax.untd.com with SMTP id AABBLPWHRAS8Q9K2 for (sender ); Wed, 8 Jun 2005 04:05:19 -0700 (PDT) X-UNTD-OriginStamp: L941HVjjYzDhN3itp//mkAbr1u7qUC+LdEJcbw6uqWge162/y2YzLw== Received: (from alwick@juno.com) by m12.lax.untd.com (jqueuemail) id KUYGZWBN; Wed, 08 Jun 2005 04:04:21 PDT To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 03:47:23 -0700 Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Overhaul Manual for/By Ed Anderson Message-ID: <20050608.040413.3976.9.alwick@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 5.0.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary=--__JNP_000_2a76.222b.0b90; type="multipart/alternative" From: al p wick X-ContentStamp: 55:27:3409130643 X-MAIL-INFO:1b35a455717405f5046580c1813d80c1a58450a184a5 X-UNTD-Peer-Info: 127.0.0.1|localhost|m12.lax.untd.com|alwick@juno.com This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_2a76.222b.0b90 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=--__JNP_000_5596.5065.156f This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ----__JNP_000_5596.5065.156f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wow. Very impressed with these suggestions. Provides key instructions, not too wordy, provides method of controlling significant attributes. Some pics would be good addition. Nice job Ed! -al wick On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 22:31:39 -0400 "jesse farr" writes: done - as follows For those of you who are entertaining disassembling and rebuilding an engine, I can not emphasize too strongly the need for a system so you can put ever part back in its original slot (even if you are going to replace some of the parts) . I use plastic ziplock sandwich bags with the following annotation scheme: RR or FR (Rear Rotor or Front Rotor) Mark or otherwise identify each rotor - they both look alike two days down the road. GS or CS (Gearside or Clearside) ( have used Inside or Outside/Inside to designate which face of the rotor - but I think this is clearer) On the side you first see when disassembly, I pick an vertex (apex area) which is different from the other - like may have no lightening pockets - anything will do just so you can tell. I then draw a picture of that face and lable the vertexs as 1, 2, 3 going clockwise from the choosen vertex. Then I lable the sandwich bag 1--->2 ( for parts from Vertex 1 to Vertex 2 - but not including 2). So this would include the corner seal, apex seal, apex springs, side seal (from 1 to 2) and side seal spring. If the apex seal assembly is in the bag for vertex 1 the 1 is circled. So bag 2 for the rear rotor gear side (GS) would be marked RR GS 2--->3 (2 circled) meaing the vertex 2 corner seal, apex seal (and their springs) and the side seal and its spring from vertex 2 to 3 would be in the bag. Bag 3 would be marked RR GS 3 --> 1 completing the circle.and I would end up with three bags Bag 1 would be markded RR GS 1--->2 (1 circled - you can put the apex seal in the clearside bags just circle the vertex number that the apex belongs to) Bag 2 would be marked RR GS 2--->3 Similarly on the clearside (no gear) 3 more bags would be labled RR CS 1--->2 this time the one is not circled because already have the apex seal/springs in bag from gear side. So this bag would just contain the Clearside corner seal and spring and the side seal and spring from vertex 1 to 2. NOTE when you flip the rotor over to this side the vertex count goes counterclock wise if you want this sides 1,2,3 to match the front side (recommend!). RR CS 2--->3 RR CS 3--->1 Similarly for the front rotor. Here are some potential Gotchas in rebuild assuming you might reuse some of the none wearing parts (keep in mind this is only the 4th time I've opened up a rotary - so no expert by any mean): 1. Forgetting what goes where - a scheme similar to above will help considerably 2. Forget on which housing dowels the "O" ring goes (Look at the rotor housing it has a recess for the O ring on the dowel that gets an O ring) 3. Did not mark which rotor AND which side you took the oil ring side seals springs from - they must be place in a specific order based on which side of the rotor and direction of rotation. Remember on each end of the spring is a tab. The rounded tab goes DOWN into a small shallow hole in the spring slot, the squared tab at the other end always faces up in the slot. 3 a. For heavens sake don't install the metal oil ring seal before you put the spring in the groove, otherwise you have to dig the ring back out (also don't forget to put the rubber "O" ring in the metal ring or the same applies). 3 b. When you do put the metal oil ring into its slot remember there is a small square indention on its bottom side that MUST go over the square shaped tab of the ring's spring which is pointing up. Be careful not distrub the spring so that the rounded end pops out of the shallow indention it is in. 3c . Use a 2x6 not a 2x4 when pressing the oil control ring into its slot - then place the OLD metal ring over its new counter part and press again with the 2x6 (you can often hear a pop when they slide into position in their slots). Both rings should move up and down in their slots when finished. 4. The outside coolant "O" ring ( the largest) must be placed in its groove so that the tallest orientation of the rubber stands up in the groove. Yes the cross section of this O ring is rectangular. The stock O ring has white paint on the side that is suppose to face the outside of the engine - but some kits not using stock seals have no white side. 5. Don't forget the rear bearing housing has an O ring around its base (easy to miss in that grove). This O ring is slightly smaller than the oil seal O rings and thinner. 6. When you put the side seal (assuming you are reusing it as I am) back in a slot - you can tell which side goes down as it will have small burnish marks where the side seal spring rubbed it. Hold it to the light just right and you can see them. 7. The small trianglar piece of the apex seal is inserted on the side of the rotor (both rotors) which faces the flywheel end of the block(its the last face of the rotor you see before putting the next item on the eshaft. 8. Don't forget you have to lift the e shaft approx 1" before you can wiggle the center housing over the rear e shaft lobe - you can work all day - but if you don't lift (or have a friend to it) then you won't get it off. ----- Original Message ----- From: Tracy Crook HI everybody - this is Laura Crook. I am sure you've all heard that Ed Anderson had another "event" - this time in LA while visiting family. He actually has two issues - one is the his brakes caught on fire -not rotary related and the other is that he has an internal coolant leak. So.... he has to remove and overhaul the engine again. Since he is not near home he has no access to his documentation. He wrote to me and asked me to post a notice to the list regarding the overhaul notes that he developed and posted to his newsgroup a few months ago. He thinks that a few people down loaded it and one may even be in .pdf format. He REALLY needs somebody to email a copy of his overhaul notes to the following email address: kinderbac@yahoo.com -al wick Artificial intelligence in cockpit, Cozy IV powered by stock Subaru 2.5 N9032U 200+ hours on engine/airframe from Portland, Oregon Prop construct, Subaru install, Risk assessment, Glass panel design info: http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html ----__JNP_000_5596.5065.156f Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Wow. Very impressed with these suggestions. Provides key instructions,= not=20 too wordy, provides method of controlling significant attributes.
Some pics would be good addition.
 
Nice job Ed!
 
-al wick
 
On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 22:31:39 -0400 "jesse farr" <jesse@jessfarr.com> writes:
done - as follows
 
For those of you who are entertaining=20 disassembling and rebuilding an engine, I can not emphasize too strongly = the=20 need for a system so you can put ever part back in its original slot (= even if=20 you are going to replace some of the parts) .  I use=20 plastic ziplock sandwich bags  with the following =20 annotation scheme:
 
RR or FR  (Rear = Rotor or=20 Front Rotor)  Mark or otherwise identify each rotor - they both look= =20 alike two days down the road.
 
GS or CS (Gearside or=20 Clearside)  ( have used Inside or Outside/Inside to designate which = face=20 of the rotor - but I think this is clearer)
On the side you first see when = disassembly, I=20 pick an vertex (apex area) which is different from the other - like may = have=20 no lightening pockets - anything will do just so you can tell. I then = draw a=20 picture of that face and lable the vertexs as 1, 2, 3 going clockwise = from the=20 choosen vertex.
 
Then I lable the sandwich bag=20 1--->2  ( for parts from Vertex 1 to Vertex 2 - = but=20 not including 2).  So this would include the corner seal, apex seal,= apex=20 springs, side seal (from 1 to 2) and side seal spring.  If the apex = seal=20 assembly is in the bag for vertex 1 the 1 is circled.
 
So bag 2 for the rear rotor gear side (= GS) would=20 be marked RR GS 2--->3 (2 circled) meaing the vertex 2 corner seal, = apex=20 seal (and their springs) and the side seal and its spring from vertex 2 = to 3=20 would be in the bag.
 
Bag 3 would be marked RR GS 3 --= >=20 1 completing the circle.and I would end up with three=20 bags
 
Bag 1 would be markded RR GS=20 1--->2 (1 circled - you can put the apex seal in the = clearside=20 bags just circle the vertex number that the apex belongs to)
Bag 2 would be marked RR GS=20 2--->3
 
Similarly on the clearside (no=20 gear) 3 more bags would be labled
 
RR CS 1--->2  = this time=20 the one is not circled because already have the apex seal/springs in bag = from=20 gear side. So this bag would just contain the Clearside corner seal and = spring=20 and the side seal and spring from vertex 1 to 2.
 
NOTE when you flip the rotor = over to this=20 side the vertex count goes counterclock wise if you want this sides 1,2,3= to=20 match the front side (recommend!).
 
RR CS 2--->3<= /DIV>
RR CS 3--->1<= /DIV>
 
Similarly for the front rotor.
 
Here are some potential Gotchas in = rebuild=20 assuming you might reuse some of the none wearing parts (keep in mind = this is=20 only the 4th time I've opened up a rotary - so no expert by any=20 mean):
 
1.  Forgetting what goes where - a = scheme=20 similar to above will help considerably
2.  Forget on which housing dowels = the "O"=20 ring goes (Look at the rotor housing it has a recess for the O ring on = the=20 dowel that gets an O ring)
3.  Did not mark which rotor AND = which side=20 you took the oil ring side seals springs from - they must be place in a=20 specific order based on which side of the rotor and direction of=20 rotation.  Remember on each end of the spring is a tab.  The = rounded=20 tab goes DOWN into a small shallow hole in the spring slot, the squared = tab at=20 the other end always faces up in the slot.
3 a.  For heavens sake don't = install=20 the metal oil ring seal before you put the spring in the groove, = otherwise you=20 have to dig the ring back out (also don't forget to put the rubber "O" = ring in=20 the metal ring or the same applies).
3 b. When you do put the metal oil = ring into=20 its slot remember there is a small square indention on its bottom side = that=20 MUST go over the square shaped tab of the ring's spring which is pointing= =20 up.  Be careful not distrub the spring so that the rounded= end=20 pops out of the shallow indention it is in.
3c . Use a 2x6 not a 2x4 when pressing = the oil=20 control ring into its slot - then place the OLD metal ring over its new=20 counter part and press again with the 2x6 (you can often hear a pop when = they=20 slide into position in their slots). Both rings should move up and down = in=20 their slots when finished.
 
4.  The outside coolant "O" ring ( = the=20 largest) must be placed in its groove so that the tallest orientation of = the=20 rubber stands up in the groove.  Yes the cross section of this O = ring is=20 rectangular.  The stock O ring has white paint on the side that is=20 suppose to face the outside of the engine - but some kits not using stock= =20 seals have no white side.
 
5.  Don't forget the rear bearing = housing=20 has an O ring around its base (easy to miss in that grove).  This O = ring=20 is slightly smaller than the oil seal O rings and thinner.
 
6.  When you put the side seal (= assuming you=20 are reusing it as I am) back in a slot - you can tell which side goes = down as=20 it will have small burnish marks where the side seal spring rubbed it.&= nbsp;=20 Hold it to the light just right and you can see them.
 
7.  The small trianglar piece of = the apex=20 seal is inserted on the side of the rotor (both rotors) which faces the=20 flywheel end of the block(its the last face of the rotor you see before=20 putting the next item on the eshaft.
 
8.  Don't forget you have to lift = the e=20 shaft approx 1" before you can wiggle the center housing over the rear e = shaft=20 lobe - you can work all day - but if you don't lift (or have a friend to = it)=20 then you won't get it off.
 
----- Original Message ----- From: Tracy Crook <= /DIV>

HI=20 everybody  - this is Laura Crook.  I am sure you've all heard= that=20 Ed Anderson had another "event" - this time in LA while visiting=20 family.  He actually has two issues - one is the his brakes caught= on=20 fire  -not rotary related 3D"Smiley and the  other is that he= has an=20 internal coolant leak.  So.... he has to remove and overhaul the = engine=20 again.
=  
Since = he is=20 not near home he has no access to his documentation.  He wrote to = me=20 and asked me to post a notice to the list regarding the overhaul = notes=20 that he developed and posted to his newsgroup a few months ago.  = He=20 thinks that a few people down loaded it and one may even be in .pdf=20 format.
=  
He = REALLY=20 needs somebody to email a copy of his overhaul notes to the = following=20 email address:
=  
kinderbac@yahoo.com
 

-al wick
Artificial intelligence in= =20 cockpit, Cozy IV powered by stock Subaru 2.5
N9032U 200+ hours on=20 engine/airframe from Portland, Oregon
Prop construct, Subaru install, = Risk=20 assessment, Glass panel design=20 info:
http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html
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