Return-Path: Received: from server10.safepages.com ([216.127.146.24] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1b9) with ESMTP id 2474317 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 07:50:12 -0400 Received: by server10.safepages.com (Postfix, from userid 1012) id B92C1CC5DC; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:47:00 +0000 (GMT) Received: from 2b0w201 (1Cust70.tnt24.atl4.da.uu.net [65.227.68.70]) by server10.safepages.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 130EDCC5DC for ; Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:46:14 +0000 (GMT) From: "Tommy James" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] 2nd and 3rd run logs Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 06:48:58 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0052_01C349D4.004C4A40" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C349D4.004C4A40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Rusty, 1. Have you been running the engine without a prop? If not, I don't think you will get dependable readings or adjustments. 2. The EC2 is set to stage the secondary injectors at 15" of MAP, so John's staging theory is probably correct. I would not worry about this low rpm stoppage for now. 3. Tracy's specs for timing (with the static timing set of 35*BTC) are: 1500-2499= 10.625*BTC, 2500-3599=18.5*BTC, and >3600= 21.875BTC. Also, low MAP(<22") will advance 5.625* when above 3600r. If it were me, I'd reset the static set up and check timing at 3500-4000. 4. Glad you found the miswire... Tommy<>< -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Russell Duffy Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 7:36 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] 2nd and 3rd run logs Greetings, I’m pasting in my log entry for today that covers the 2nd and 3rd engine runs. Can someone please confirm the following: At low power, if you turn off the primary injector, is the engine supposed to quit? Thanks, Rusty Turbo 13B powered RV-3 (experimental aircraft)...Be Afraid :-) 1993 RX-7 R1... Not stock, carry bail money :-) 7-13-03 / 10 hours / 1202 total Got in two engine runs today. The first one showed that I had two persistent oil leaks. I now HATE Earl’s fittings. The engine started fine, then got rougher as it got warm. Turning off the primary now causes the engine to quit, just as if you turned off all the fuel. In fact, you can see the AFR go from rich, to nothing in just a second or so. Turning off the secondary doesn’t do anything. Even with the mixture full lean, the AFR meter shows very rich. I tried lowering the Mode 3 injector flow, but that didn’t get me anything. I ended up setting that back to normal. Also, the tach still doesn’t work, and neither does my optical tach, or a program on the Ipaq called RPM from Sound. Maybe I’m just imagining that it’s running. After the first run, I took the EC-2 connector apart, and started ohming every connection to make sure it was right. I found one wire that I connected to the wrong place. Great connection, but wrong place, so no points. It was the “mixture control voltage” wire that goes from the EC-2 pin 26, to the PCM pin 15. I put it on pin 12 of the PCM originally. Anyway, I got that fixed, tightened the POS Earls fittings, and tried putting a small cap between the tach signal (Rotor 2 leading ignition trigger) and the tach. As you can tell, I’m getting desperate. Run two proved that the mixture knob does do something after all. Hooking up the wire helped that part of it. There’s no change in the primary secondary switch behavior though. From looking at Tracy’s instructions, it appears that he compensates for the loss of a pair of injectors by turning on the cold start function, which doubles the fuel. Since the primaries are the only ones working at low power, when you turn them off, the engine SHOULD quit, no matter how much to try to double the fuel. Must confirm this, but it seems like it’s normal, though it sure didn’t work that way Friday. Of course all bets are off when you have bad connections and a miss-run wire. I checked the timing at about 2500 rpm, and found it to be around 0 degrees, or TDC. I adjusted the CAS for about 19 degrees, figuring that it will advance 4 degrees at high power. The engine is running very well at 2500 rpm and above. I mean spooky smooth. I’m afraid to run it too high at home, for fear of it getting away from me, so I’ll wait until I get to the airport, have the wings attached, and can be at the controls. Even at 3000 rpm (the optical tach was working some now) it seems VERY strong. I just can’t believe the power it seems to have. The engine lopes at lower rpm, below about 2000 rpm, and won’t run below about 1500 or so. I haven’t tried to do anything with the air bleeds on the throttle body, so maybe that will help. I’m pretty sure it’s just a tuning issue though. The best news of all- no more leaks! If I confirm that the engine is supposed to quit at low power when you turn off the primary injectors, I’ll be clear for departure to the airport. ------=_NextPart_000_0052_01C349D4.004C4A40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Rusty, =20
1. = Have you=20 been running the engine without a prop?  If not, I don't think = you=20 will get dependable readings or adjustments.
2.  The EC2=20 is set to stage the secondary injectors at 15" of MAP, so John's = staging=20 theory is probably correct.  I would not worry about this low rpm = stoppage=20 for now.
3.  Tracy's=20 specs for timing (with the static timing set of 35*BTC) are: =20 1500-2499=3D 10.625*BTC, 2500-3599=3D18.5*BTC, and >3600=3D = 21.875BTC.  Also,=20 low MAP(<22")  will advance 5.625* when above 3600r.  If it = were=20 me, I'd reset the static set up and check timing at=20 3500-4000.
4.  Glad you=20 found the miswire...
Tommy<><
-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Russell=20 Duffy
Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 7:36 PM
To: = Rotary=20 motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] 2nd and 3rd run=20 logs

Greetings,

 

I=92m pasting in my log = entry for=20 today that covers the 2nd and 3rd engine = runs.  Can=20 someone please confirm the following:

 

At low power, if you = turn off the=20 primary injector, is the engine supposed to quit?  =20

 

Thanks,

 

Rusty

Turbo 13B powered RV-3=20 (experimental aircraft)...Be Afraid :-)

1993 RX-7 R1... Not = stock, carry=20 bail money :-)

 

 

 

7-13-03 =20 /  10 hours  /  1202 total

 

Got in two engine runs=20 today.  The first one showed that I had two persistent oil = leaks.  I=20 now HATE Earl=92s fittings.  The engine started fine, then got = rougher as=20 it got warm.  Turning off the primary now causes the engine to = quit, just=20 as if you turned off all the fuel.  In fact, you can see the AFR = go from=20 rich, to nothing in just a second or so.  Turning off the = secondary=20 doesn=92t do anything.  Even with the mixture full lean, the AFR = meter=20 shows very rich.  I tried lowering the Mode 3 injector flow, but = that=20 didn=92t get me anything.  I ended up setting that back to = normal. =20 Also, the tach still doesn=92t work, and neither does my optical tach, = or a=20 program on the Ipaq called RPM from Sound.  Maybe I=92m just = imagining that=20 it=92s running.    

 

After the first run, I = took the=20 EC-2 connector apart, and started ohming every connection to make sure = it was=20 right.  I found one wire that I connected to the wrong = place.  Great=20 connection, but wrong place, so no points. It was the =93mixture = control=20 voltage=94 wire that goes from the EC-2 pin 26, to the PCM pin = 15.  I put=20 it on pin 12 of the PCM originally.  Anyway, I got that fixed, = tightened=20 the POS Earls fittings, and tried putting a small cap between the tach = signal=20 (Rotor 2 leading ignition trigger) and the tach.  As you can = tell, I=92m=20 getting desperate. 

 

Run two proved that the = mixture=20 knob does do something after all.  Hooking up the wire helped = that part=20 of it.  There=92s no change in the primary secondary switch = behavior=20 though.  From looking at Tracy=92s=20 instructions, it appears that he compensates for the loss of a pair of = injectors by turning on the cold start function, which doubles the = fuel. =20 Since the primaries are the only ones working at low power, when you = turn them=20 off, the engine SHOULD quit, no matter how much to try to double the=20 fuel.  Must confirm this, but it seems like it=92s normal, though = it sure=20 didn=92t work that way Friday.  Of course all bets are off when = you have=20 bad connections and a miss-run wire.  I checked the timing at = about 2500=20 rpm, and found it to be around 0 degrees, or TDC.  I adjusted the = CAS for=20 about 19 degrees, figuring that it will advance 4 degrees at high = power. =20 The engine is running very well at 2500 rpm and above.  I mean = spooky=20 smooth.  I=92m afraid to run it too high at home, for fear of it = getting=20 away from me, so I=92ll wait until I get to the airport, have the = wings=20 attached, and can be at the controls.  Even at 3000 rpm (the = optical tach=20 was working some now) it seems VERY strong.  I just can=92t = believe the=20 power it seems to have. 

 

The engine lopes at = lower rpm,=20 below about 2000 rpm, and won=92t run below about 1500 or so.  I = haven=92t=20 tried to do anything with the air bleeds on the throttle body, so = maybe that=20 will help.  I=92m pretty sure it=92s just a tuning issue = though. =20

 

The best news of all- no = more=20 leaks!  If I confirm that the engine is supposed to quit at low = power=20 when you turn off the primary injectors, I=92ll be clear for departure = to the=20 airport. 

 

 

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