X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com X-PolluStop-Diagnostic: (direct reply)\eX-PolluStop-Score: 0.00\eX-PolluStop: Scanned with Niversoft PolluStop 2.1 RC1, http://www.niversoft.com/pollustop Return-Path: Received: from [24.25.9.101] (HELO ms-smtp-02-eri0.southeast.rr.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c4) with ESMTP id 868500 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 08:29:45 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.101; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-024-074-185-127.carolina.res.rr.com [24.74.185.127]) by ms-smtp-02-eri0.southeast.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id j3ECSu0W017076 for ; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 08:28:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001b01c540ed$8b9e2070$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: Rx-8 Rotors useable in 91 13B? Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 08:29:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0018_01C540CC.045CBDE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C540CC.045CBDE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the information, George The prices I am getting on the Rx-8 rotors here have ranged from $322 = USD from Mazdatrix to $378.86 from a Mazda discount parts place (they = pay the shipping). MAzdatrix apparently got by running the standard = RX-7 ceramic apex seals in the Rx-8 rotors. I would assume they reduced = the height of the seals unless the ceramic seals are narrower than metal = seals since they have not indicated finding anyone to mill the slots = deeper as yet. Ed A ----- Original Message -----=20 From: George Lendich=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 3:45 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: Rx-8 Rotors useable in 91 13B? Well Richard, Bill and All, I have to bow my head in shame and confess I one again believed what I = have been told to be true - when in fact it wasn't. I guess I can say the RX8 rotor IS lighter, but not by much. It weighs = in at 4241 Grams or 9.33lbs. A reduction of a bout 2% from the lighter = 89/91rotors. Again I made an error, the RX8 rotor appears to be symmetrical in the = compression depression. So the chap who runs them backwards may be OK in = doing so. My advice ( I think I will use this statement more often) is that the = depth of cut for the RX7 is 9.5mm ( appears to be correct) the RX8 = appears to be 6.25mm, by my measurements. An additional 3.25 cut in = depth is required for the earlier Apex seals.. Width of the RX8 Rotor is 79.75mm compared to an old rotor I have here = that's 79.65mm The RX rotor is .1mm bigger ( approx)=20 Anything else you chaps need - I'm depressed as I was looking forward = to that Rotor weight savings. George ( down under) Kelly, absolutely! Richard Sohn N-2071U ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Kelly Troyer=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 6:41 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: Rx-8 Rotors useable in 91 13B? Richard, But we would include the side seals and springs ,end = seals,springs (and plugs ), and oil seal rings and respective O-rings ? Is that asumption = correct ? -- Kelly Troyer=20 Dyke Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2=20 -------------- Original message from "richard sohn" = : --------------=20 George,=20 I got the information from my engineering education, and also = Leon confirmed it in one of his recent postings on the subject.=20 One more thing, the difference between the two rotors balancing = each other and needing balance weights anyway, is static balancing vs. = dynamic balancing. Richard Sohn N-2071U=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: George Lendich=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 5:02 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: Rx-8 Rotors useable in 91 13B? Richard, This goes against my advice as all components in movement = affect the rotating mass. It would be like not allowing for rings in a piston in the = balance equation. However I will check on that aspect. Where did you obtain that = information George ( down under) From: George Lendich=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 12:02 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: Rx-8 Rotors useable in 91 = 13B? Bill,=20 If you find out before I do will you let me know about the = additional depth to be cut. On the balancing; I have to cover all that with my one = rotor ( no biggie), I can give you all that stuff a little down the = track it will only require lightening the counter balance weights a = little. The e-shaft is the same, the rotors lighter =3D lighter = balance weights. There may be some oil volume difference (read weight) , = but I should have that soon, as well the rotor weight. BTW Tracy's apex = seals are 33 grams ( per rotor) - got them to-day. Has anyone got a set of new Mazda apex seals handy to = weigh - I guess there wouldn't be much in it anyway - just curious! George ( down under)=20 I am going to look into this a bit more and find out how = much to mill a rotor. A lighter rotor =3D> more rpms without increasing = stress? Ed Don't forget lighter rotors would require different = balance weights. I have heard from various sources that the Renesis = rotor was lighter and then that they weigh the same! Both from usually = reliable sources, go figure. Bill Jepson George, the apex seals do not go into the balance equation = because they are not attached to the rotor.=20 Just my 2c. Richard Sohn N-2071U ------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C540CC.045CBDE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks for the information, = George
 
The prices I am getting on the Rx-8 = rotors here=20 have ranged from $322 USD from Mazdatrix to $378.86 from a Mazda = discount parts=20 place (they pay the shipping).  MAzdatrix apparently got by running = the=20 standard RX-7 ceramic apex seals in the Rx-8 rotors.  I would = assume=20 they reduced the height of the seals unless the ceramic seals are = narrower than=20 metal seals since they have not indicated finding anyone to mill the = slots=20 deeper as yet.
 
Ed A
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 George=20 Lendich
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 = 3:45=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fw: = Rx-8 Rotors=20 useable in 91 13B?

Well Richard, Bill and = All,
 
I have to bow my head in shame and = confess I one=20 again believed what I have been told to be true - when in fact it=20 wasn't.
 
I guess I can say the RX8 rotor = IS lighter, but not by much. It weighs = in at=20 4241 Grams or 9.33lbs. A reduction of a bout 2% from the lighter=20 89/91rotors.
 
Again I made an error, the RX8 rotor = appears to=20 be symmetrical in the compression depression. So the chap who runs = them=20 backwards may be OK in doing so.
 
My advice ( I think I will use this=20 statement more often) is that the depth of cut for the RX7 is = 9.5mm (=20 appears to be correct) the RX8 appears to be 6.25mm, by my = measurements.=20 An additional 3.25 cut in depth is required for the earlier Apex=20 seals..
 
Width of the RX8 Rotor is = 79.75mm compared=20 to an old rotor I have here that's 79.65mm The RX rotor is .1mm bigger = (=20 approx) 
 
Anything else you chaps need - I'm = depressed as I=20 was looking forward to that Rotor weight savings.
George ( down under)
Kelly,
absolutely!
 
Richard = Sohn
N-2071U
 
 
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 Kelly = Troyer=20
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, = 2005 6:41=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Fw: Rx-8=20 Rotors useable in 91 13B?

Richard,
     But we would include the side seals = and=20 springs ,end seals,springs (and plugs ),
and oil seal rings and respective O-rings ? Is that asumption = correct=20 ?
--
Kelly Troyer
Dyke=20 Delta/13B/RD1C/EC2




--------------=20 Original message from "richard sohn" <unicorn@gdsys.net>:=20 --------------

George,
I got the information from my engineering education, and = also Leon=20 confirmed it in one of his recent postings on the subject. =
One more thing, the difference between the two rotors = balancing=20 each other and needing balance weights anyway, is static = balancing vs.=20 dynamic balancing.
 
Richard Sohn
N-2071U
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 George Lendich =
To: Rotary motors in=20 aircraft
Sent: Wednesday, April = 13, 2005=20 5:02 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] = Re: Fw: Rx-8=20 Rotors useable in 91 13B?

Richard,
This goes against my advice as all components in movement = affect=20 the rotating mass.
It would be like not allowing for rings in a piston in = the=20 balance equation.
However I will check on that aspect. Where did you obtain = that=20 information
George ( down under)
From:=20 George Lendich =
To: Rotary motors = in=20 aircraft
Sent: Wednesday, = April 13,=20 2005 12:02 AM
Subject: = [FlyRotary] Re: Fw:=20 Rx-8 Rotors useable in 91 13B?

Bill,
If you find out before I do will you let me know = about the=20 additional depth to be cut.
On the balancing; I have to cover all that with my = one rotor=20 ( no biggie), I can give you all that stuff a little down = the=20 track it will only require lightening the counter = balance=20 weights a little.
 
The e-shaft is the same, the rotors lighter =3D = lighter balance=20 weights.
There may be some oil volume difference (read = weight) ,=20 but I should have that soon, as well the rotor weight. BTW = Tracy's=20 apex seals are 33 grams ( per rotor) - got them = to-day.
 
Has anyone got a set of new Mazda apex seals handy to = weigh -=20 I guess there wouldn't be much in it anyway - just = curious!
 
George ( down under) 
I am going to=20 look into this a bit more and find out how much to mill = a=20 rotor.  A lighter rotor =3D> more rpms without = increasing=20 stress?
 
Ed Don't forget lighter rotors would require = different=20 balance weights. I have heard from various sources that = the=20 Renesis rotor was lighter and then that they weigh the = same!=20 Both from usually reliable sources, go figure.
Bill Jepson
 
George,
the apex seals do not go into the balance equation = because=20 they are not attached to the rotor.
Just my 2c.
 
Richard Sohn
N-2071U
 
=
 
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