X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com X-PolluStop-Diagnostic: \eX-PolluStop-Score: 0.00\eX-PolluStop: Scanned with Niversoft PolluStop 2.1 RC1, http://www.niversoft.com/pollustop Return-Path: Received: from [24.25.9.100] (HELO ms-smtp-01-eri0.southeast.rr.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c4) with ESMTP id 866989 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 19:57:04 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.100; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-024-074-185-127.carolina.res.rr.com [24.74.185.127]) by ms-smtp-01-eri0.southeast.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id j3CNuHLw024400 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 19:56:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000801c53fbb$3a4ff500$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" Subject: Rx-8 Rotors in Rx-7 Block Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 19:56:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C53F99.B248D170" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C53F99.B248D170 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Appended below is an e mail from the owner of MazdaTrix about using the = Rx-8 rotor in an RX-7 block. Interesting reading, now if only the = ceramic seals were not $3600 for a set for two rotors I'd be ready {:>). = Makes for interesting reading. Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com Here is an e-mail that Dave Lemon from Mazdatrix sent an RX-7 forum = member on the subject. Just thought you guys would find it interesting: We are using RX-8 rotors in one of our SCCA E/Production "street port" = 86-91 13B non-turbo engines. We do no mods to the rotors (except installing the racing rotor = bearing). We are using RX-8 racing ceramic apex seals (the OEM RX-8 steel seals = warped too much having to cross the exhaust port). (There IS enough metal to cut the apex seal groove for either 86-91 2mm = seals or earlier 3mm seals -- we are looking into making that service = available, but are not ready yet) The rotors are run "backwards" (front in rear, rear in front) so the = angle cut on the side of the rotor gives more intake opening timing = (RX-8 uses the cuts for the side exhaust ports). Do not use the "oil scraper ring" outside the second oil control ring. DO NOT use RX-8 corner seals -- they DESTROY 86-91 side housings !!!! = (use 86-91 corner seals, TRUST ME). They ARE lighter than 89-91 non-turbo rotors, have higher compression, = and are less expensive. With all of the above said: We have YET to attain even the SAME = horsepower on the dyno as we are getting from our race engine(s) using = the 89-91 non-turbo rotors !!! Potentials: With the RX-8 rotor having the side seal further outboard, we were able = to increase the (ported) intake opening timing versus the earlier rotors = -- it may be too much ??? (does not seem likely) Running the rotors with the angle cut for intake opening may also be in = the above category. We always set pre-92 side seal clearance at about .0015 (1 1/2 thou). = The SMALLEST clearance we could get, using the LONGEST of the available = "pre-sized" RX-8 side seals was about .010 (10 thou), with the worst on = this set of rotors of about .016 (16 thou). This gives a much lower = "sealing" than we like. Other than the above, at this time we are not at all sure why the power = is less than when using the earlier rotors. No, we have not done the REAL test -- run the SAME engine on the dyno, = and only swap the rotors (backwards, then normal). That equals three = builds, and three full dyno on-and-offs + dyno sessions.=20 Dave Lemon,=20 Owner of Mazdatrix,=20 The dyno operator and driver of the E/P car ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C53F99.B248D170 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Appended below is an e mail from the = owner of=20 MazdaTrix about using the Rx-8 rotor in an RX-7 block.  Interesting = reading, now if only the ceramic seals were not $3600 for a set for two = rotors=20 I'd be ready {:>).  Makes for interesting reading.
 
 
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary=20 Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
 
Here is an e-mail that Dave Lemon from Mazdatrix sent an RX-7 forum = member=20 on the subject. Just thought you guys would find it=20 interesting:



We are using RX-8 rotors in one of our SCCA=20 E/Production "street port" 86-91 13B non-turbo engines.

We do no = mods to=20 the rotors (except installing the racing rotor bearing).
We are using = RX-8=20 racing ceramic apex seals (the OEM RX-8 steel seals warped too much = having to=20 cross the exhaust port).
(There IS enough metal to cut the apex seal = groove=20 for either 86-91 2mm seals or earlier 3mm seals -- we are looking into = making=20 that service available, but are not ready yet)
The rotors are run = "backwards"=20 (front in rear, rear in front) so the angle cut on the side of the rotor = gives=20 more intake opening timing (RX-8 uses the cuts for the side exhaust=20 ports).
Do not use the "oil scraper ring" outside the second oil = control=20 ring.
DO NOT use RX-8 corner seals -- they DESTROY 86-91 side = housings !!!!=20 (use 86-91 corner seals, TRUST ME).

They ARE=20 lighter than 89-91 non-turbo rotors, have higher compression, and are = less=20 expensive.

With all of the above said: We have = YET to=20 attain even the SAME horsepower on the dyno as we are getting from our = race=20 engine(s) using the 89-91 non-turbo rotors = !!!

Potentials:
With the=20 RX-8 rotor having the side seal further outboard, we were able to = increase the=20 (ported) intake opening timing versus the earlier rotors -- it may be = too much=20 ??? (does not seem likely)

Running the rotors with the angle cut = for=20 intake opening may also be in the above category.

We always set = pre-92=20 side seal clearance at about .0015 (1 1/2 thou). The SMALLEST clearance = we could=20 get, using the LONGEST of the available "pre-sized" RX-8 side seals was = about=20 .010 (10 thou), with the worst on this set of rotors of about .016 (16 = thou).=20 This gives a much lower "sealing" than we like.

Other than the = above, at=20 this time we are not at all sure why the power is less than when using = the=20 earlier rotors.

No, we have not done the REAL test -- run the = SAME engine=20 on the dyno, and only swap the rotors (backwards, then normal). That = equals=20 three builds, and three full dyno on-and-offs + dyno sessions. =


Dave=20 Lemon,
Owner of Mazdatrix,
The dyno operator and driver of the = E/P=20 car
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