X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com X-PolluStop-Diagnostic: (direct reply)\eX-PolluStop-Score: 0.00\eX-PolluStop: Scanned with Niversoft PolluStop 2.1 RC1, http://www.niversoft.com/pollustop Return-Path: Received: from mail21.syd.optusnet.com.au ([211.29.133.158] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c4) with ESMTPS id 866872 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 18:40:31 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=211.29.133.158; envelope-from=lendich@optusnet.com.au Received: from george (d220-236-246-199.dsl.nsw.optusnet.com.au [220.236.246.199]) by mail21.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j3CMdetn007303 for ; Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:39:42 +1000 Message-ID: <008101c53fb1$07d9e950$c7f6ecdc@george> From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] The Final? Story on the Engine problem Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:43:20 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_007E_01C54004.D8B19250" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_007E_01C54004.D8B19250 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ed, That was me who suggester RX8 rotors, I would like to hear what Bruce T = says as well. I will use one in a single rotor. Question - did you say those were Hurley apex seals? I would use Tracy/Bruce's apex seals and the RX8 rotors. George ( down under) Tried to send the below message with 4 photos and it was rejected as = 307K which exceeded the lists 300K limit. So here it is again with two = photos with this e mail and two photos to follow with the next e mail. Ed Well, folks the Mystery of my apex seal failure may never be solved = completely. But, I can now eliminate the spark plugs as well as the = plastic plenum. The end of the spark plug clears the combustion chamber = even with the washer removed - and no pieces of the porcelain appear to = missing from the plugs. So just don't know what caused the initial seal failure, but the = sequence of events after that is fairly evident. Photos 3 piece Apex shows what remained of one apex seal from rotor = #1, clearly a rather large chuck is missing and could not be found. But = evidence of its passage through the combustion chamber was left behind. = The other two pieces of the broken apex were still in their slot. Photo Apex Departing Slot clearly shows where the missing piece of = the apex seal bent over the straight edge of its slot when it departed. = Apparently when it left the clearance was getting less and the departing = edge was apparently caught between the lip of the slot and the rotor = housing forming a flatten corner. Photo Apex Scrapes shows that the ejected apex seal piece probably = made it around the chamber a couple of times, one impression looks to be = smaller than the width of the ejected piece - so perhaps it broke up = further in its round. Photo Apex Slot Peened shows that the 2nd apex seal of #1 rotor that = would not move up and down - clear why, now. The departing piece peened = over the slot and froze the seal in its slot. I had to pry the opposite = end of the seal up to the position you see. Overall rotor #1 is shot, although I guess one could have the slot = milled out to 3mm but I'm not inclined to do so. Surprisingly, I could find no damage to either the side housing or the = rotor housing. The rotor housings were used (came with the core) and = looks the same as when I put them on in 2001. The side housings are new = and minimal wear - could not even catch the tip of a dentist took pick = on any of the marks. So what was the initial cause of the apex seal to fail - no evidence I = could find. No indication of FOD other than the broken apex seal = imprints in the rotor. Could have been some thing that just failed the = seal and did no other damage before departing. Before this intake I had = a SS screen mesh placed over the Mazda throttle body I had been using. = Had not yet mounted one to the new Mustang TB as it was not as easy to = do. Don't know if that would have made a difference.=20 I am still puzzled why it took so long if it were a foreign object to = cause the damage. Just one of those things I'll likely never know. Now the question is what to do next. Someone suggested the 10:1 = rotors of the new Rensis as cheaper and higher compression - I like both = of those features {:>). I'll need to check with Bruce T and see if = there is any merit to that idea. Surprisingly little carbon on the rotors and most was soft not hard = baked - may have been caused a bit by the gobs of fuel I was forcing = through the chambers with no good combustion taking place. But, = certainly no where near as bad as a car engine. That's it for now. Best Regards Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_007E_01C54004.D8B19250 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ed,
That was me who suggester RX8 rotors, I = would like=20 to hear what Bruce T says as well. I will use one in a single=20 rotor.
Question - did you say those were = Hurley apex=20 seals?
I would use Tracy/Bruce's apex seals = and the RX8=20 rotors.
George ( down under)
Tried to send the below message with = 4 photos and=20 it was rejected as 307K which exceeded the lists 300K limit.  So = here it=20 is again with  two photos with this e mail and two photos to = follow=20 with the next e mail.
 
Ed
 
 
 
Well, folks the Mystery of my apex = seal failure=20 may never be solved completely.  But, I can now eliminate the = spark plugs=20 as well as the plastic plenum.  The end of the spark plug clears = the=20 combustion chamber even with the washer removed - and no pieces of the = porcelain appear to missing from  the plugs.
 
So just don't know what caused the = initial seal=20 failure, but the sequence of events after that is fairly = evident.
 
Photos 3 piece Apex shows what = remained of one=20 apex seal from rotor #1, clearly a rather large chuck is missing and = could not=20 be found. But evidence of its passage through the combustion = chamber=20 was left behind.   The other two pieces of the broken apex = were=20 still in their slot.
 
Photo  Apex Departing Slot = clearly shows=20 where the missing piece of the apex seal bent over the straight edge = of its=20 slot when it departed. Apparently when it left the clearance was = getting less=20 and the departing edge was apparently caught between the lip of the = slot and=20 the rotor housing forming a flatten corner.
 
Photo Apex Scrapes shows that the = ejected apex=20 seal piece probably  made it around the chamber a couple of = times, one=20 impression looks to be smaller than the width of the ejected piece - = so=20 perhaps it broke up further in its round.
 
Photo Apex Slot Peened shows that the = 2nd apex=20 seal of #1 rotor that would not move up and down - clear why, = now.  The=20 departing piece peened over the slot and froze the seal in its = slot.  I=20 had to pry the opposite end of the seal up to the position you=20 see.
 
Overall rotor #1 is shot, although I = guess one=20 could have the slot milled out to 3mm but I'm not inclined to do=20 so.
 
Surprisingly, I could find no damage = to either=20 the side housing or the rotor housing.  The rotor housings were = used=20 (came with the core) and looks the same as when I put them on in = 2001. =20 The side housings are new and minimal wear - could not even catch = the tip=20 of a dentist took pick on any of the marks.
 
So what was the initial cause of = the apex=20 seal to fail - no evidence I could find.  No indication of FOD = other than=20 the broken apex seal imprints in the rotor.  Could have been some = thing=20 that just failed the seal and did no other damage before departing. = Before=20 this intake I had a SS screen mesh placed over the Mazda throttle body = I had=20 been using.  Had not yet mounted one to the new Mustang TB as it = was not=20 as easy to do.  Don't know if that would have made a difference.=20
 
I am still puzzled why it took so = long if it were=20 a foreign object to cause the damage.  Just one of those things = I'll=20 likely never know.
 
Now the question is what to do = next. =20 Someone suggested the 10:1 rotors of the new Rensis as cheaper and = higher=20 compression - I like both of those features {:>).  I'll need = to check=20 with Bruce T and see if there is any merit to that idea.
 
Surprisingly little carbon on the = rotors and most=20 was soft not hard baked - may have been caused a bit by the gobs of = fuel I was=20 forcing through the chambers with no good combustion taking = place.  But,=20 certainly no where near as bad as a car engine.
 
That's it for now.
 
Best Regards
 
Ed
 
 
 
 
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary=20 Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary=20 Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com

>>  Homepage: =20 http://www.flyrotary.com/
>>  Archive:  =20 = http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html
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