X-Virus-Scanned: clean according to Sophos on Logan.com X-PolluStop-Diagnostic: (direct reply)\eX-PolluStop-Score: 0.00\eX-PolluStop: Scanned with Niversoft PolluStop 2.1 RC1, http://www.niversoft.com/pollustop Return-Path: Received: from [24.25.9.100] (HELO ms-smtp-01-eri0.southeast.rr.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c4) with ESMTP id 866625 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 16:21:39 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.100; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-024-074-185-127.carolina.res.rr.com [24.74.185.127]) by ms-smtp-01-eri0.southeast.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id j3CKKqLw020869 for ; Tue, 12 Apr 2005 16:20:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000a01c53f9d$225d91a0$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: The Final? Story on the Engine problem Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 16:20:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C53F7B.99C02180" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C53F7B.99C02180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Steve, I guess anytime you have an engine problem and you and the aircraft will = fly again - its minimal damage. The one rotor is shot, but otherwise I = can't find any other damage - however, I will go back tomorrow and a = bright light and examine it a bit more thoroughly - like laying a = straight edge across the housing inner face to make sure there are no = depressions, etc. Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Steve Brooks=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 4:20 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The Final? Story on the Engine problem Ed, Sounds like you really had very little damage, other than to the one = rotor. I'd say that you were quite fortunate all the way around, in = making a safe landing, and finding so little damage. =20 I hope that you are back flying very soon. Steve Brooks -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 3:15 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] The Final? Story on the Engine problem Tried to send the below message with 4 photos and it was rejected as = 307K which exceeded the lists 300K limit. So here it is again with two = photos with this e mail and two photos to follow with the next e mail. Ed Well, folks the Mystery of my apex seal failure may never be solved = completely. But, I can now eliminate the spark plugs as well as the = plastic plenum. The end of the spark plug clears the combustion chamber = even with the washer removed - and no pieces of the porcelain appear to = missing from the plugs. So just don't know what caused the initial seal failure, but the = sequence of events after that is fairly evident. Photos 3 piece Apex shows what remained of one apex seal from rotor = #1, clearly a rather large chuck is missing and could not be found. But = evidence of its passage through the combustion chamber was left behind. = The other two pieces of the broken apex were still in their slot. Photo Apex Departing Slot clearly shows where the missing piece of = the apex seal bent over the straight edge of its slot when it departed. = Apparently when it left the clearance was getting less and the departing = edge was apparently caught between the lip of the slot and the rotor = housing forming a flatten corner. Photo Apex Scrapes shows that the ejected apex seal piece probably = made it around the chamber a couple of times, one impression looks to be = smaller than the width of the ejected piece - so perhaps it broke up = further in its round. Photo Apex Slot Peened shows that the 2nd apex seal of #1 rotor that = would not move up and down - clear why, now. The departing piece peened = over the slot and froze the seal in its slot. I had to pry the opposite = end of the seal up to the position you see. Overall rotor #1 is shot, although I guess one could have the slot = milled out to 3mm but I'm not inclined to do so. Surprisingly, I could find no damage to either the side housing or = the rotor housing. The rotor housings were used (came with the core) = and looks the same as when I put them on in 2001. The side housings are = new and minimal wear - could not even catch the tip of a dentist took = pick on any of the marks. So what was the initial cause of the apex seal to fail - no evidence = I could find. No indication of FOD other than the broken apex seal = imprints in the rotor. Could have been some thing that just failed the = seal and did no other damage before departing. Before this intake I had = a SS screen mesh placed over the Mazda throttle body I had been using. = Had not yet mounted one to the new Mustang TB as it was not as easy to = do. Don't know if that would have made a difference.=20 I am still puzzled why it took so long if it were a foreign object = to cause the damage. Just one of those things I'll likely never know. Now the question is what to do next. Someone suggested the 10:1 = rotors of the new Rensis as cheaper and higher compression - I like both = of those features {:>). I'll need to check with Bruce T and see if = there is any merit to that idea. Surprisingly little carbon on the rotors and most was soft not hard = baked - may have been caused a bit by the gobs of fuel I was forcing = through the chambers with no good combustion taking place. But, = certainly no where near as bad as a car engine. That's it for now. Best Regards Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C53F7B.99C02180 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks Steve,
 
I guess anytime you have an engine = problem and you=20 and the aircraft will fly again - its minimal damage.  The one = rotor is=20 shot, but otherwise I can't find any other damage - however, I will go = back=20 tomorrow and a bright light and examine it a bit more thoroughly  - = like=20 laying a straight edge across the housing inner face to make sure there = are no=20 depressions, etc.
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Steve=20 Brooks
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 = 4:20=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: The = Final? Story=20 on the Engine problem

Ed,
Sounds like you really had very little damage, other than to = the one=20 rotor.  I'd say that you were quite fortunate all the way around, = in=20 making a safe landing, and finding so little damage. =20
I=20 hope that you are back flying very soon.
 
Steve Brooks
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]On Behalf Of Ed=20 Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 3:15 = PM
To:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] The Final? = Story on=20 the Engine problem

Tried to send the below message = with 4 photos=20 and it was rejected as 307K which exceeded the lists 300K = limit.  So=20 here it is again with  two photos with this e mail and two = photos=20 to follow with the next e mail.
 
Ed
 
 
 
Well, folks the Mystery of my apex = seal failure=20 may never be solved completely.  But, I can now eliminate the = spark=20 plugs as well as the plastic plenum.  The end of the spark plug = clears=20 the combustion chamber even with the washer removed - and no pieces = of the=20 porcelain appear to missing from  the plugs.
 
So just don't know what caused the = initial seal=20 failure, but the sequence of events after that is fairly=20 evident.
 
Photos 3 piece Apex shows what = remained of one=20 apex seal from rotor #1, clearly a rather large chuck is missing and = could=20 not be found. But evidence of its passage through the = combustion=20 chamber was left behind.   The other two pieces of the = broken apex=20 were still in their slot.
 
Photo  Apex Departing Slot = clearly shows=20 where the missing piece of the apex seal bent over the straight edge = of its=20 slot when it departed. Apparently when it left the clearance was = getting=20 less and the departing edge was apparently caught between the lip of = the=20 slot and the rotor housing forming a flatten corner.
 
Photo Apex Scrapes shows that the = ejected apex=20 seal piece probably  made it around the chamber a couple of = times, one=20 impression looks to be smaller than the width of the ejected piece - = so=20 perhaps it broke up further in its round.
 
Photo Apex Slot Peened shows that = the 2nd apex=20 seal of #1 rotor that would not move up and down - clear why, = now.  The=20 departing piece peened over the slot and froze the seal in its = slot.  I=20 had to pry the opposite end of the seal up to the position you=20 see.
 
Overall rotor #1 is shot, although = I guess one=20 could have the slot milled out to 3mm but I'm not inclined to do=20 so.
 
Surprisingly, I could find no = damage to either=20 the side housing or the rotor housing.  The rotor housings were = used=20 (came with the core) and looks the same as when I put them on in = 2001. =20 The side housings are new and minimal wear - could not even = catch the=20 tip of a dentist took pick on any of the marks.
 
So what was the initial = cause of the apex=20 seal to fail - no evidence I could find.  No indication of FOD = other=20 than the broken apex seal imprints in the rotor.  Could have = been some=20 thing that just failed the seal and did no other damage before = departing.=20 Before this intake I had a SS screen mesh placed over the Mazda = throttle=20 body I had been using.  Had not yet mounted one to the new = Mustang TB=20 as it was not as easy to do.  Don't know if that would have = made a=20 difference.
 
I am still puzzled why it took so = long if it=20 were a foreign object to cause the damage.  Just one of those = things=20 I'll likely never know.
 
Now the question is what to do = next. =20 Someone suggested the 10:1 rotors of the new Rensis as cheaper and = higher=20 compression - I like both of those features {:>).  I'll need = to=20 check with Bruce T and see if there is any merit to that = idea.
 
Surprisingly little carbon on the = rotors and=20 most was soft not hard baked - may have been caused a bit by the = gobs of=20 fuel I was forcing through the chambers with no good combustion = taking=20 place.  But, certainly no where near as bad as a car=20 engine.
 
That's it for now.
 
Best Regards
 
Ed
 
 
 
 
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary=20 Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary=20 Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
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