Return-Path: Received: from [24.25.9.102] (HELO ms-smtp-03-eri0.southeast.rr.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c2) with ESMTP id 766421 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 02 Mar 2005 11:04:12 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.102; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-024-074-185-127.carolina.rr.com [24.74.185.127]) by ms-smtp-03-eri0.southeast.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id j22G3Kkd027177 for ; Wed, 2 Mar 2005 11:03:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001601c51f41$5bd554d0$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Filterr or not to Filter: [FlyRotary] Re: FW: Cooling system update Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 11:03:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01C51F17.72C85E50" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C51F17.72C85E50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, Mark, a compression check is part of the engine routine. = Oil/filter change (but not oil analysis) is part of the Lubrication = inspection as you surmised. I inspect the exhaust headers for cracks = and also the exhaust plugs for EGT and O2 sensor. I examine the O2 = sensor but not the EGT. I normally do not take the headers off to = inspect the apex seals as I presume if my compression is OK the seals = are OK. I have done it and you can (in my installation), just undo four = nuts drop the header down and look up the exhaust port to the apex = seals. You can push them in and out of their slots and observe their = wear surface but other than that I don't know what you would be looking = for and as I mentioned - if I have good compression, I conclude the = seals are OK. I only check the waterpump bearings for leakage - my experience with = water pumps indicates you will start to see coolant seepage before = bearing problems. Good point thought, it would be easy to loosen the = alternator belt and see if the pump pulley would waggle. Good ideas, keep them coming and we'll get a comprehensive check list. Ed A ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark R Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 9:32 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Filterr or not to Filter: [FlyRotary] Re: FW: = Cooling system update Ed, Thanks for posting your inspection list. May I suggest some additions = to the Engine section, such as a compression check (I think you = mentioned this earlier), oil change & oil analysis (likely covered in = your Lubrication System section), spark plug check, alternator check for = noisy bearings, worn brushes (probably covered in the Electrical System = section), also V-belt/serpentine belt inspection. Do you ever remove = the exhaust header and inspect the apex seals and inside the rotor = housings (is this even possible)? =20 =20 Any suggestions on checking water pump bearings? On my road bound = vehicles, I usually check the wp by wiggling the fan blade (engine = stopped) and watch for excessive movement. Since we don't use fans, I = can't think of a way to check for bearing play. I suppose it can be = done by removing the belts and wiggling the wp pulley. =20 =20 Thanks, Mark=20 =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 4:35 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Filterr or not to Filter: [FlyRotary] Re: FW: = Cooling system update =20 Mark, I have a nice one written down, but guess it wouldn't take long = to do that. Perhaps we could start one and folks could add to it. They = will need to tailor it for their own installation in any case. =20 I'll write down what I inspect (focusing mainly on the FWF area) and = post it. For instance I inspect each inch of fuel line FWF - last = inspection I found a stainless steel braided line which returns fuel = from pressure regulator to sump tank leaking (oozing) through the braid = about 2" above the sump fitting- not under any stress/heat/pressure in = that area, so a bit of a surprise - about the last place I would have = expected the line to leak. )=20 =20 Ed =20 The major FWF categories I focus on are: =20 Fuel System Ignition System Lubrication System Coolant System Engine a. Induction b. Exhaust Gearbox Electrical System EC2 Prop/Spinner Motor Mount =20 For example on the Fuel system here is what I check for. =20 Fuel System: 1. Check all FWF Fuel connections/lines for evidence of = leaks/chaffing/damage (examine connections closely)=20 2. Drain Sump tank, remove quick drain, inspect "O" ring - replace = drain 3. Disconnect and inspect coarse fuel filter screens - replace. 4. Turn on Boost(Low pressure pump), time required to re-fill sump < = =3D 3 seconds 5. Remove and Replace EFI high pressure fuel filters (Check Saginaw = "O" rings - replace if needed) 6. Check Both EFI pumps for pressure a. Disconnect and block fuel return to Pressure regulator (I = simply screw on an An-6 cap to the disconnected fuel line fitting) b. Check that Main pump puts out at least 60 psi (Pressure sensor = after pump and filter but before fuel rail) c. Check that back-up pump puts out at least 80 psi d. Reconnect Pressure Regulator 7. Reconnect components and test for pressure regulation (40 psi min) 8. Check around fuel injectors for any sign of leakage (generally a = sign of bad "O" rings) 9. Re-inspect for any new leaks (Important - I have found that at 40 = psi fuel can find its way out if there is any path open) =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark R Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 1:56 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Filterr or not to Filter: [FlyRotary] Re: = FW: Cooling system update =20 Ed, Do you have an annual "rotary-engine" checklist that you would be = willing to share with the group. If not, then you've got my email = address. ;-) =20 Mark =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 12:53 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Filterr or not to Filter: [FlyRotary] Re: = FW: Cooling system update =20 Well, Mark, that was easier than taking the Ross drive off each = annual for inspection. Nothing to show for it either - until after = approx 160 hrs of flying when I noticed the Sun gear and one of the = planetary gear teeth were galling. Of course, then I had a good excuse = to buy Tracy's PSRU. I also do compression checks at each annual = although not having a "real" rotary compression checker all it really = tells me is that my seals are OK and compression is nominal for each = rotor (not a big deviation in pressure between the faces). =20 I may be a bit anal retentive about annuals, but in my opinion it is = a once a year thing that can catch things (like the Ross, or radiator = gunk) before they become catastrophic. Just my personal opinion of = course. =20 Ed A =20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mark R Steitle=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 12:19 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Filterr or not to Filter: [FlyRotary] Re: = FW: Cooling system update =20 =20 WOW Ed, I'm impressed. I wonder how many can honestly say they = go to this level of detail on their annuals? =20 =20 Mark =20 =20 I stick a small "Inspection mirror" up through the AN-16 fitting = with a small light shinning on the mirror. (I think next time I will = wire a small LED to the head of the mirror - would make it much easier) = I then run the mirror up and down the side tank and rotate it at = intervals looking mainly at the condition of the small 1/8-1/4" dia = cross tank tubes. I look for blockage or any indication of scale/gunk. = Thus far I have found none. =20 =20 Ed A =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C51F17.72C85E50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes, Mark, a compression check is part = of the=20 engine routine.  Oil/filter change (but not oil analysis) is = part of=20 the Lubrication inspection as you surmised.  I inspect the exhaust = headers=20 for cracks and also the exhaust plugs for EGT and O2 sensor. I = examine the=20 O2 sensor but not the EGT.    I normally do not take the = headers off=20 to inspect the apex seals as I presume if my compression is OK the seals = are=20 OK.  I have done it and you can (in my installation), just undo = four nuts=20 drop the header down and look up the exhaust port to the apex = seals.  You=20 can push them in and out of their slots and observe their wear surface = but other=20 than that I don't know what you would be looking for and as I mentioned = - if I=20 have good compression, I conclude the seals are OK.
 
I only check the waterpump bearings for = leakage -=20 my experience with water pumps indicates you will start to see coolant = seepage=20 before bearing problems.  Good point thought, it would be easy to = loosen=20 the alternator belt and see if the pump pulley would = waggle.
 
Good ideas, keep them coming and we'll = get a=20 comprehensive check list.
 
Ed A
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Mark R Steitle =
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 = 9:32=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Filterr or not=20 to Filter: [FlyRotary] Re: FW: Cooling system update

Ed,

Thanks for = posting=20 your inspection list.  May I suggest some additions to the Engine = section, such as a compression check (I think you mentioned this = earlier), oil=20 change & oil analysis (likely covered in your Lubrication System = section),=20 spark plug check, alternator check for noisy bearings, worn brushes = (probably=20 covered in the Electrical System section), also V-belt/serpentine belt = inspection.  Do you ever remove the exhaust header and inspect = the apex=20 seals and inside the rotor housings (is this even possible)? =20

 

Any = suggestions on=20 checking water pump bearings?  On my road bound vehicles, I = usually check=20 the wp by wiggling the fan blade (engine stopped) and watch for = excessive=20 movement.  Since we don=92t use fans, I can=92t think of a way to = check for=20 bearing play.  I suppose it can be done by removing the belts and = wiggling the wp pulley.  =   

 

Thanks,

Mark=20

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft = [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 = 4:35=20 PM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Filterr or not=20 to Filter: [FlyRotary] Re: FW: Cooling system = update

 

Mark, = I have a=20 nice one written down, but guess it wouldn't take long to do = that. =20 Perhaps we could start one and folks could add to it. They will need = to tailor=20 it for their own installation in any case.

 

 I'll=20 write down what I inspect (focusing mainly on the FWF area) and post=20 it. For instance I inspect each inch of fuel line FWF - last = inspection I found a stainless steel braided line which returns = fuel from=20 pressure regulator to sump tank leaking (oozing) through the braid = about 2"=20 above the sump fitting- not under any stress/heat/pressure in that = area, so a=20 bit of a surprise - about the last place I would have expected the = line to=20 leak.  )

 

Ed

 

The = major FWF=20 categories I focus on are:

 

Fuel=20 System

Ignition=20 System

Lubrication=20 System

Coolant=20 System

Engine

  =20 a.  Induction

  =20 b.  Exhaust

Gearbox

Electrical=20 System

EC2

Prop/Spinner

Motor = Mount

 

For = example on=20 the Fuel system here is what I check for.

 

Fuel=20 System:

1.  Check=20 all FWF Fuel connections/lines for evidence=20 of leaks/chaffing/damage (examine connections=20 closely) 

2.  Drain=20 Sump tank, remove quick drain, inspect "O" ring - replace=20 drain

3. =20 Disconnect and inspect coarse fuel filter screens -=20 replace.

4.  Turn=20 on Boost(Low pressure pump), time required to re-fill sump < = =3D 3=20 seconds

5.  Remove=20 and Replace EFI high pressure fuel filters (Check Saginaw "O" rings - = replace=20 if needed)

6.  Check=20 Both EFI pumps for pressure

   =20 a.  Disconnect and block fuel return to Pressure regulator = (I =20 simply screw on an An-6 cap to the disconnected fuel line=20 fitting)

   =20 b.  Check that Main pump puts out at least 60 psi (Pressure = sensor after=20 pump and filter but before fuel rail)

   =20 c.  Check that back-up pump puts out at least 80 = psi

   =20 d.  Reconnect Pressure Regulator

7. =20 Reconnect components and test for pressure regulation (40 psi=20 min)

8.  Check=20 around fuel injectors for any sign of leakage (generally a sign of bad = "O"=20 rings)

9. =20 Re-inspect for any new leaks (Important - I have found that at 40 psi = fuel can=20 find its way out if there is any path open)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-----=20 Original Message -----

From: Mark R Steitle=20

Sent: = Tuesday,=20 March 01, 2005 1:56 PM

Subject: = [FlyRotary]=20 Re: Filterr or not to Filter: [FlyRotary] Re: FW: Cooling system=20 update

 

Ed,

Do you = have an=20 annual =93rotary-engine=94 checklist that you would be willing to = share with the=20 group.  If not, then you=92ve got my email address. =20 ;-)

 

Mark

 

From:=20 Rotary motors in = aircraft=20 [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On=20 Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 = 12:53=20 PM
To: = Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Filterr or not=20 to Filter: [FlyRotary] Re: FW: Cooling system = update

 

Well, Mark,=20  that was easier than taking the Ross drive off each annual for = inspection.  Nothing to show for it either - until after approx = 160 hrs=20 of flying when I noticed the Sun gear and one of the planetary gear = teeth=20 were galling.  Of course, then I had a good excuse to buy = Tracy's = PSRU.  I=20 also do compression checks at each annual although not having a = "real"=20 rotary compression checker all it really tells me is that my seals = are OK=20 and compression is nominal for each rotor (not a big deviation in = pressure=20 between the faces).

 

I = may be a=20 bit anal retentive about annuals, but in my opinion it is a once a = year=20 thing that can catch things (like the Ross, or radiator gunk) before = they=20 become catastrophic. Just my personal opinion of=20 course.

 

Ed=20 A

 

 

-----=20 Original Message -----

From: = Mark R Steitle=20

To: = Rotary motors in = aircraft=20

Sent: = Tuesday,=20 March 01, 2005 12:19 PM

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Filterr or not to Filter: [FlyRotary] Re: FW: = Cooling=20 system update

 

 

WOW  Ed, I=92m=20 impressed.  I wonder how many can honestly say they go to = this level=20 of detail on their annuals? 

 

Mark

 

 

I = stick a=20 small "Inspection mirror" up  through the AN-16 fitting = with a=20 small light shinning on the mirror. (I think next time I will = wire a=20 small LED to the head of the mirror - would make it much = easier) =20  I then run the mirror up and down the side tank and rotate = it at=20 intervals looking mainly at the condition of the small 1/8-1/4" = dia cross=20 tank tubes.  I look for blockage or any indication of=20 scale/gunk.  Thus far I have found none.  =

 

Ed=20 A

 

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