Return-Path: Received: from [24.25.9.101] (HELO ms-smtp-02-eri0.southeast.rr.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c2) with ESMTP id 764310 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 01 Mar 2005 08:25:20 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.101; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from edward2 (cpe-024-074-185-127.carolina.rr.com [24.74.185.127]) by ms-smtp-02-eri0.southeast.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id j21DOVee000033 for ; Tue, 1 Mar 2005 08:24:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001501c51e62$08d544f0$2402a8c0@edward2> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: FW: Cooling system update Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 08:24:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01C51E38.1FC60480" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C51E38.1FC60480 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MessageYou are undoubtedly correct about drinking water having much less = mineral content that tap water. Same mixture coolant I use - its = interesting - it appears several people can use what we think is the = same set-up, but get different results. Great! hope to see you at Sun & Fun this year - last year you missed = getting weathered in at Tracy's for 5 days along with 5 others of us. = It was terrible - just beer, pizza, rotary and airplane talk for 5 whole = days {:>) Ed A ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Chuck Dunlap=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 11:27 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: FW: Cooling system update Hello Ed! I am using 50/50 Prestone and distilled water, actually I = have used drinking water as it is getting harder to find distilled water = at the local grocery stores. I have never used tap water, I figure = drinking water would not have enough minerals to show up in the = radiator.=20 I hope to make it to Sun-n-fun, seems I have been making the trip on = odd numbered tears, not intentionally... Chuck -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 5:12 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: FW: Cooling system update Thanks for the report, Chuck Just out of curiosity, what is your coolant composition - brand of = antifreeze used? Distilled water for coolant? Tap water? I agree, I keep a log of every flight with things like EGT, coolant = and oil temps along with fuel flow, airspeed, altitude, OAT recorded = every 15 -30 minutes. Well, I no longer log EGT as it has not changed = in 260 hours except when I tried a muffler experiment that produced too = much back pressure. Any chance we will see you at Sun & Fun this year?? Ed A ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Chuck Dunlap=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 11:28 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] FW: Cooling system update =20 My coolant temperature has been rising little by little over the = 440 hours I have been flying my 13B. Last summer on the way to Arlington = fly-in, I departed St George Utah at 100 degrees OAT and the coolant = temp quickly rose to 230, my absolute maximum allowable. I could not = climb above pattern altitude, so I landed. I cobbled together a water = dribble system out of drip irrigation tubing, and it allowed me to = continue the trip. After returning home I decided something had to be = done. After checking everything I could think of, I removed the = radiator, and after careful inspection, I found debris clogging much of = the core that was visible. Some of it was bits of silicone used to help = seal the couplings, and some of it looked like scale from the water = jackets.I cleaned out as much as I could get to, and I made a screen out = of stainless mesh and inserted in line inside one of the 1 1/2" silicone = hose couplings. I flew it like that for about 10 hours while I had a new = radiator made by Griffin Radiator. Coolant temps were better, but still = not acceptable. I got the new radiator installed yesterday, and I found = the screen already 3/4 clogged with more scale debris.=20 Today I flew it with the new radiator, and at OAT of about 65 F a = full power climb out at 80 KIAS resulted in the coolant temp stabilizing = at 167 F. I am not running a thermostat, and part throttle cruise = coolant temp was about 130F. Descending out of 10000 ft the coolant = temp dropped to about 110F, and my cabin heat was practically nil. Looks = like I need cowl flaps now! I am actually looking forward to some 100 = degree days this summer to see how it cools now. If a 35 degree rise in = OAT results in the same rise in coolant temp, I predict that my max = coolant temp will not go above 202 F. My coolant temp rise problem has been so gradual, while other = things were being changed around, that the possibility of a clogged = radiator did not even cross my mind. Lessons learned: 1. Keep good flight data and refer to if often, = the only way to catch gradual trends. 2. A cooling system in an aircraft definitely needs some sort of = screen or filter. I may try one of these = http://www.babymall.com.au/tefba/ 3. 230 F does not seem to have hurt my 13B, I have probably 10 = total hours flying at that temp. Keep the shiny side up! Chuck Dunlap N616RV 13B ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C51E38.1FC60480 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
You are undoubtedly correct about = drinking=20 water having much less mineral content that tap water.  Same = mixture=20 coolant I use - its interesting - it appears several people can use what = we=20 think is the same set-up, but get different results.
 
Great! hope to see you at Sun & Fun = this year -=20 last year you missed getting weathered in at Tracy's for 5 days along = with 5=20 others of us.  It was terrible - just beer, pizza, rotary and = airplane talk=20 for 5 whole days {:>)
 
Ed A
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Chuck = Dunlap=20
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 = 11:27=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: FW: = Cooling=20 system update

Hello Ed!  I am using 50/50 Prestone and distilled = water, actually=20 I have used drinking water as it is getting harder to find distilled = water at=20 the local grocery stores. I have never used tap water, I figure = drinking water=20 would not have enough minerals to show up in the radiator.=20
I=20 hope to make it to Sun-n-fun, seems I have been making the trip on odd = numbered tears, not intentionally...
 
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: = Rotary motors=20 in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of = Ed=20 Anderson
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 5:12 = AM
To:=20 Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: FW: = Cooling=20 system update

Thanks for the report, = Chuck
 
Just out of curiosity, what is your = coolant=20 composition - brand of antifreeze used? Distilled water for coolant? = Tap=20 water?
 
I agree, I keep a log of every = flight with=20 things like EGT, coolant and oil temps along with fuel flow, = airspeed,=20 altitude, OAT recorded every 15 -30 minutes.  Well, I no longer = log EGT=20 as it has not changed in 260 hours except when I tried a muffler = experiment=20 that produced too much back pressure.
 
Any chance we will see you at Sun = & Fun=20 this year??
 
Ed A
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 Chuck=20 Dunlap
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Sunday, February 27, = 2005 11:28=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] FW: = Cooling=20 system update

 

 
My coolant=20 temperature has been rising  little by little over the 440 = hours I=20 have been flying my 13B. Last summer on the way to Arlington = fly-in, I=20 departed St George Utah at 100 degrees OAT and the coolant temp = quickly=20 rose to 230, my absolute maximum allowable. I could not climb = above=20 pattern altitude, so I landed. I cobbled together a water = dribble=20 system out of drip irrigation tubing, and it allowed me to = continue the=20 trip. After returning home I decided something had to be done. = After=20 checking everything I could think of, I removed the radiator, and = after=20 careful inspection, I found debris clogging much of the core = that was=20 visible. Some of it was bits of silicone used to help seal the = couplings,=20 and some of it looked like scale from the water jackets.I cleaned = out as=20 much as I could get to, and I made a screen out of stainless mesh = and=20 inserted in line inside one of the 1 1/2" silicone hose couplings. = I flew=20 it like that for about 10 hours while I had a new radiator made by = Griffin=20 Radiator. Coolant temps were better, but still not = acceptable. I got=20 the new radiator installed yesterday, and I found the screen = already 3/4=20 clogged with more scale debris.
Today I flew=20 it with the new radiator, and at OAT of about 65 F a full = power climb=20 out at 80 KIAS resulted in the coolant temp stabilizing at 167 F. = I am not=20 running a thermostat, and part throttle cruise coolant temp was = about=20 130F. Descending out of 10000 ft  the coolant temp dropped to = about=20 110F, and my cabin heat was practically nil. Looks like I need = cowl flaps=20 now! I am actually looking forward to some 100 degree days this = summer to=20 see how it cools now. If a 35 degree rise in OAT results in the = same rise=20 in coolant temp, I predict that my max coolant temp will not go = above 202=20 F.
My coolant=20 temp rise problem has been so gradual, while other things were = being=20 changed around, that the possibility of a clogged radiator did not = even=20 cross my mind.
Lessons=20 learned: 1. Keep good flight data and refer to if often, the only = way to=20 catch gradual trends.
2. A cooling=20 system in an aircraft definitely needs some sort of screen or = filter. I=20 may try one of these http://www.babymall.com.au/tef= ba/
3. 230 F does=20 not seem to have hurt my 13B, I have probably 10 total hours = flying at=20 that temp.
 
Keep the shiny=20 side up!
 
Chuck=20 Dunlap
N616RV=20 = 13B
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