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From: "Paul" <sqpilot@bellsouth.net>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
References: <list-757525@logan.com>
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Vapor Lock
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 17:06:56 -0600
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Herb....Thank you for pointing this out. I totally forgot that I had 
conducted this test. After reading my own post, of course I recall that I 
had to turn the boost pump on just to be able to taxi back to the hangar. 
The NEXT test was done without the Facet pump, and with the sump tank still 
vented, and I was unable to induce vapor lock, even at 240 and 250 degrees 
water temp, which is the highest temp I ever reached.  Thank you so much for 
pointing this out. I thought I was going to have to put the Facet back 
inline, as well as plug the sump tank vent to test the items one at a time. 
I already did that, but I have done so many runups at hight temps, I forgot 
what order I installed/removed items.  Thanks to you, I don't have to do it 
all over again. I failed to write down the results of that test, but 
fortunately I put it in an e-mail, and you found it for me.  Any chance you 
can help me find my cell phone that fell into the river a few weeks ago? 
(kidding).  Thanks again, Herb.  You saved me a lot of work and 
experimentation duplicating what I had already done.  Paul Conner

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Herb Sanders" <hsanders@bellsouth.net>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 11:29 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Vapor Lock


Paul, I'm confused. Your post on 2/23 says you did not run with the vent
installed and the Facet in line - but this post says you ran it and it quit
from what appeared to be vapor lock.?????
Maybe I am misreading something.
Herb

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On
> Behalf Of Paul
> Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 7:26 PM
> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Vapor Lock
>
> I ran my engine today with all the firesleeve installed and the new sump
> tank vent.  After 3 engine runs at WOT, the water temp hit 230 (and
> climbing), and the engine started acting just like it did the day of my
> forced landing.  Sputtering, erratic and finally just it quit, and would
> not
> restart. I turned on my inline Facet fuel pump.  It took 3 or 4 seconds,
> then the engine came back to life. I was able to taxi back to the hangar
> (I
> used about 1/2 throttle to get the aircraft rolling, then throttled back a
> bit to taxi).  My Facet pump is between the main tanks and the sump
> tank.(after the fuel selector valve). The EFI pumps are after the sump
> tank
> and before the fuel rail/regulator. The unused fuel from the regulator
> returns to the sump tank.  There is no way the engine would run without
> the
> Facet pump to push fresh gasoline into the sump tank, which was obviously
> filled with gas and bubbles after the thorough heat soaking it received.
> With the Facet pump still on, and taxiing under reduced power, the temps
> came down from 240 to 210 by the time I reached the hangar, and shut it
> down. My sump tank is vented with a 3/16" OD line on the top, which goes
> into the top of my left fuel tank. The line is opaque, and I can see fuel
> movement going through the new vent line when the Facet pump is turned on.
> Unfortunately, I can't tell if it is clear fuel or bubbles, or a mixture,
> as
> the line is opaque rather than clear, but I can definately see motion and
> tell it's direction of flow. Hope this more helpful than confusing.  Paul
> Conner
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Sower" <canarder@frontiernet.net>
> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 10:41 AM
> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Vapor Lock
>
>
> > <... HP pumps are capable of moving LOTS more fuel than a Facet pump ...
> > HP pumps would be drawing fuel through the Facet pump ... because the
> > Facet can't keep up ...>
> >
> > You're right.  I hadn't thought of that.  Facet pumps deliver 30 gph.
> > I'll check how much my HP pumps are putting out.  Wonder if Facet
> delivers
> > more at lower head pressure, objective being to push fuel through filter
> > and plumbing so there's less chance of pressure drop that could cause
> the
> > fuel to vaporize.
> >
> > Back to the drawing board ... maybe ... Jim S.
> >
> > Marvin Kaye wrote:
> >
> >> Jim Sower <canarder@frontiernet.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> """
> >>  I have a canard, but I will have a Facet pump near (and below) the
> wing
> >> tanks
> >> to PUSH the fuel through the filter and fuel flow transducer.  I don't
> >> want
> >> the HP pumps to SUCK through the filters and etc. for fear of
> vaporizing
> >> the
> >> fuel.
> >> """
> >>
> >> This doesn't make any sense to me, but perhaps I'm missing something.
> >> The HP pumps are capable of moving LOTS more fuel than a Facet pump.
> >> Consequently, it seems to me that the HP pumps would actually be
> drawing
> >> fuel through the Facet pump when they're switched on, simply because
> the
> >> Facet can't keep up with what's being drawn out of the sump tank by
> them.
> >> Additionally, a return system needs 2 flow transducers, one for the
> feed
> >> line and one for the return... then the display instrument's
> electronics
> >> deduct the return flow from the feed flow to properly calculate actual
> >> through-the-injectors instantaneous flow data.  (The EI fuel flow
> >> instrument uses an FFDM-1 (fuel flow differential module) to do the
> job,
> >> GRT EIS does it itself, as do other flow instruments with both feed and
> >> return inputs.)
> >>
> >> As long as the filters are rated to flow as much fuel as the HP pumps
> are
> >> capable of pushing I don't see that (vapoization) as an issue.  The
> >> filter elements do need to be kept clean, and are a replace-at-annual
> >> item.
> >>
> >>    <Marv>
> >>
> >>>>  Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> >>>>  Archive:   http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >>>  Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> >>>  Archive:   http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html
> >
> >
> > --
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> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
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>
> >>  Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> >>  Archive:   http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html


>>  Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
>>  Archive:   http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html


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