Return-Path: Received: from mail08.syd.optusnet.com.au ([211.29.132.189] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c1) with ESMTP-TLS id 724845 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 06:53:49 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=211.29.132.189; envelope-from=lendich@optusnet.com.au Received: from george (d220-236-206-227.dsl.nsw.optusnet.com.au [220.236.206.227]) by mail08.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id j1BBqwD9003257 for ; Fri, 11 Feb 2005 22:52:59 +1100 Message-ID: <001101c51030$894ac320$e3ceecdc@george> From: "George Lendich" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: : 13b vs 360 performance Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 21:55:09 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C51084.5AAD9520" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C51084.5AAD9520 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [FlyRotary] Re: : 13b vs 360 performanceKen, I thought it may have been something else. Leon mention e-shaft flex causing to rotors to skew in the housing, = under high load (I thought of the NOS). One fix was shaving a little off = the corners, as you did. The real fix is 2 piece shaft as they are stiffer.=20 George ( down under) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ken Welter=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 8:39 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: : 13b vs 360 performance Yes I invested in good oil lines and I got rid of the Ross gearbox, = when the thrust bearing on the engine goes out do to the ross gearbox = the oil pressure drops to about 10 or 20 psi and the rotor seizes, After switching to the cog belt redrive I stacked up 900 hrs with no = problems until I blew an oil line last summer. Ken Ken, Did you ever work out why you had problems with the rotors seizing. George ( down under) The Coot is a whole different bird than most of you are flying = but for comparisons I have flown with another Coot with an IO-360 and I = can blow him away on takeoff out of the water but I am cheating as I = kick an extra 100 hp with the nitrous to lift it out of the water, on = climb out he will blow me away as my prop is fixed for cruise and he has = a CS prop, in cruise we are a dead match when I am running at 6500 rpm < = gear ratio is a 2.95 to 1 >. Ken Ed / Jerry, I stand corrected. Let me say that 'the 13b power I see being = achieved so far in NA 13b airplane installations seem to be less than = what O-360 guys are getting'. After mounting props was anybody able = to attain even 6000 rpm in their 13b NA aircraft installation, = level-flight? Tom=20 Jerry Hey wrote: I assume you are talking about a 6000 rpm limited rotary vs a = wide open 0-360. Run the rotary faster and thats the end of the story. = Jerry Ed Anderson wrote: > Tom,=20 > I don't really think anyone can accurately make a = generalization like > that. > From: Tom > It's my understanding that NA non-renesis rotary installations > produce less power than 360s, Perry Mick might have a word on = this. > Eric Ruttan wrote: > A 360 Lyc does not produce the same power as a rotary. > If true, then the Ellison card may not get enough air. > If not true, then there is no real reason why the Ellison = cannot feed a > rotary. > > Ed, I understand your math, but even if the local inlet = velocity is much > higher, we dont care. the velocities adverage out to the same, = as the > volume of air =3D velocity * carb area. > > If the velocities are higher, the rotary consumes more air, = and makes > more power. > =20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C51084.5AAD9520 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [FlyRotary] Re: : 13b vs 360 performance
Ken,
I thought it may have been something=20 else.
Leon mention e-shaft flex causing to = rotors to skew=20 in the housing, under high load (I thought of the NOS). One fix=20 was shaving a little off the corners, as you did.
The real fix is 2 piece shaft as they = are=20 stiffer. 
George ( down under)
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ken=20 Welter
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 = 8:39=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: : 13b = vs 360=20 performance

   Yes I invested in good oil = lines and I=20 got rid of the Ross gearbox, when the thrust bearing on the engine = goes out do=20 to the ross gearbox the oil pressure drops to about 10 or 20 psi and = the rotor=20 seizes,
 After switching to the cog belt = redrive I=20 stacked up 900 hrs with no problems until I blew an oil line last=20 summer.
  Ken




Ken,
Did = you ever work=20 out why you had problems with the rotors = seizing.
George ( down=20 under)
   The Coot is a whole = different=20 bird than most of you are flying but for comparisons I have flown = with=20 another Coot with an IO-360 and I can blow him away on takeoff out = of the=20 water but I am cheating as I kick an extra 100 hp with the nitrous = to lift=20 it out of the water, on climb out he will blow me away as my prop = is fixed=20 for cruise and he has a CS prop, in cruise we are a dead match = when I am=20 running at 6500 rpm < gear ratio is a 2.95 to 1 = >.
  Ken



Ed / = Jerry,
I stand corrected.  Let me say that 'the 13b = power I=20 see being achieved so far in NA 13b airplane installations seem = to be=20 less than what O-360 guys are = getting'.    After=20 mounting props was anybody able to attain even 6000 rpm in their = 13b NA=20 aircraft installation, level-flight?

 
Tom 

Jerry Hey=20 <jerryhey@earthlink.net> wrote:
I assume you are talking about a 6000 rpm limited = rotary vs=20 a wide open
0-360. Run the rotary faster and thats the end of = the=20 story. Jerry

 Ed Anderson wrote:
> = Tom, 
>=20 I don't really think anyone can accurately make a=20 generalization like
> that.

 
> From: Tom
> It's my understanding that NA=20 non-renesis rotary installations
> produce less power = than=20 360s, Perry Mick might have a word on this.

 

> Eric Ruttan wrote:
> A 360 Lyc does not = produce the same power as a rotary.
> If true, then the = Ellison=20 card may not get enough air.
> If not true, then there is = no real=20 reason why the Ellison cannot feed a
> = rotary.
>
> Ed,=20 I understand your math, but even if the local inlet velocity is=20 much
> higher, we dont care. the velocities adverage out = to the=20 same, as the
> volume of air =3D velocity * carb=20 area.
>
> If the velocities are higher, the rotary = consumes=20 more air, and makes
> = more power.
>
       =20        =20
Do you Yahoo!?
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