Return-Path: Received: from web41510.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.93.93] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.3c1) with SMTP id 723701 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 10 Feb 2005 11:39:19 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=66.218.93.93; envelope-from=tomtugan@yahoo.com Received: (qmail 41149 invoked by uid 60001); 10 Feb 2005 16:38:34 -0000 Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=poJm8IKk4Td6IMqMhdn50w3Q5NUULue9lDag2HzltHJtxw5MOshHubMuhyh6AAzpo/kSHzovbZFLE1imMhjYJQlY2oJth/susCkuTEcM0z3JSq6E8CnfGynqqgiEDonrX2EAtBNAxBAP5ZZNdqX1xthTIiLW1+mZ7xa696qdJFU= ; Message-ID: <20050210163834.41147.qmail@web41510.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.224.93.112] by web41510.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 10 Feb 2005 08:38:33 PST Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 08:38:33 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: : 13b vs 360 performance To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-55852068-1108053513=:41044" --0-55852068-1108053513=:41044 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thanks Ed, I'll totally retract both statements of that post. Still working numbers on the formulas. Just now I'm going backwards, taking prop-rpm, factoring in redrive to get e-rpm, *3 to get rotor rpm, factoring in CID and then scratching my head. Also, I could be wrong but I think 2800rpm for a 360 is excessive for normal operations. I'm too busy working formulas to try to verify just now. Tom Ed Anderson wrote: Actually, Tom The answer to your question is yes! Even I have achieved 6800 rpm in level flight - but, you need to ask with what gear box ratio and what prop. The 6800 rpm was with the 2.85:1 gear ratio and a 76x88 prop. Put on a low pitched short diameter prop and you can easily achieve 6000 rpm even with a 2.17:1 gear box. My top rpm with that set up was 6300 rpm and Tracy Crook got much higher - I think he achieved 7200 rpm. Yes, all in level flight, gravity assist does not count {:>) Now, if your induction/exhaust is not correct or if your Fuel MAP for your EFI is not set up right and ignition timing is not optimum, Or if you have a very draggy airframe which precludes unloading the prop and engine as you pick up airspeed, then certainly you can produce a lot less power. But, that's true of aircraft engines or rotaries. Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 10:52 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: : 13b vs 360 performance Ed / Jerry, I stand corrected. Let me say that 'the 13b power I see being achieved so far in NA 13b airplane installations seem to be less than what O-360 guys are getting'. After mounting props was anybody able to attain even 6000 rpm in their 13b NA aircraft installation, level-flight? Tom Jerry Hey wrote: I assume you are talking about a 6000 rpm limited rotary vs a wide open 0-360. Run the rotary faster and thats the end of the story. Jerry Ed Anderson wrote: > Tom, > I don't really think anyone can accurately make a generalization like > that. > From: Tom > It's my understanding that NA non-renesis rotary installations > produce less power than 360s, Perry Mick might have a word on this. > Eric Ruttan wrote: > A 360 Lyc does not produce the same power as a rotary. > If true, then the Ellison card may not get enough air. > If not true, then there is no real reason why the Ellison cannot feed a > rotary. > > Ed, I understand your math, but even if the local inlet velocity is much > higher, we dont care. the velocities adverage out to the same, as the > volume of air = velocity * carb area. > > If the velocities are higher, the rotary consumes more air, and makes > more power. > --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' --0-55852068-1108053513=:41044 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Thanks Ed,
I'll totally retract both statements of that post.  
 
Still working numbers on the formulas.  Just now I'm going backwards, taking prop-rpm, factoring in redrive to get e-rpm, *3 to get rotor rpm, factoring in CID and then scratching my head.      Also, I could be wrong but I think 2800rpm for a 360 is excessive for normal operations.   I'm too busy working formulas to try to verify just now.
 
Tom 

Ed Anderson <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
Actually, Tom
 
The answer to your question is yes!  Even I have achieved 6800 rpm in level flight - but, you need to ask with what gear box ratio and what prop.  The 6800 rpm was with the 2.85:1 gear ratio and a 76x88 prop.   Put on a low pitched short diameter prop and you can easily achieve 6000 rpm even with a 2.17:1 gear box.  My top rpm with that set up was 6300 rpm and Tracy Crook got much higher - I think he achieved 7200 rpm.
 
Yes, all in level flight, gravity assist does not count {:>)
 
Now, if your induction/exhaust is not correct or if your Fuel MAP for your EFI is not set up right and ignition timing is not optimum, Or if you have a very draggy airframe which precludes unloading the prop and engine as you pick up airspeed, then certainly you can produce a lot less power.  But, that's true of aircraft engines or rotaries.
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 10:52 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: : 13b vs 360 performance

Ed / Jerry,
I stand corrected.  Let me say that 'the 13b power I see being achieved so far in NA 13b airplane installations seem to be less than what O-360 guys are getting'.    After mounting props was anybody able to attain even 6000 rpm in their 13b NA aircraft installation, level-flight?
 
Tom 

Jerry Hey <jerryhey@earthlink.net> wrote:
I assume you are talking about a 6000 rpm limited rotary vs a wide open
0-360. Run the rotary faster and thats the end of the story. Jerry

 Ed Anderson wrote:
> Tom, 
> I don't really think anyone can accurately make a generalization like
> that. 
 
> From: Tom
> It's my understanding that NA non-renesis rotary installations
> produce less power than 360s, Perry Mick might have a word on this.
 

> Eric Ruttan wrote:
> A 360 Lyc does not produce the same power as a rotary.
> If true, then the Ellison card may not get enough air.
> If not true, then there is no real reason why the Ellison cannot feed a
> rotary.
>
> Ed, I understand your math, but even if the local inlet velocity is much
> higher, we dont care. the velocities adverage out to the same, as the
> volume of air = velocity * carb area.
>
> If the velocities are higher, the rotary consumes more air, and makes
> more power.
>

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' --0-55852068-1108053513=:41044--