Return-Path: Received: from mailout1.pacific.net.au ([61.8.0.84] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.8) with ESMTP id 607810 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 14 Jan 2005 21:29:32 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=61.8.0.84; envelope-from=peon@pacific.net.au Received: from mailproxy2.pacific.net.au (mailproxy2.pacific.net.au [61.8.0.87]) by mailout1.pacific.net.au (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-7.1) with ESMTP id j0F2T0A6004246 for ; Sat, 15 Jan 2005 13:29:00 +1100 Received: from ar1 (ppp2096.dyn.pacific.net.au [61.8.32.150]) by mailproxy2.pacific.net.au (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian-7.1) with SMTP id j0F2SvxG019385 for ; Sat, 15 Jan 2005 13:28:58 +1100 Message-ID: <003601c4faa9$bdaa05f0$9620083d@ar1> From: "Leon" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: For Al Geitzen: Stagnant Oil was Re: [FlyRotary] Re: water cooled matrix in the oil pan Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 13:27:19 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0031_01C4FB05.EFDFB400" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C4FB05.EFDFB400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey Al, How do you come to the conclusion that the oil is "stagnant in the pan". = What difference does the presence of a heat exchanger, be it a full = tote odds custom unit, or a just a series of tubes in the pan, have on = oil flow?? Sure, the oil may be a little slow flowing through the fins = when it's cold, but as the oil warms up, this goes away. But, y'see, = the trick is to make the heat exchanger unit out of the correct core = material. Obviously, one doesn't use oil cooler core or radiator core = (or an evap core!!)! Something like an auto tranny cooler is more the = G-O ... nice big flat widely spaced fins ... on edge to the oil flow = ... maaaaaate .... So I'm flummoxed as to how the oil can be "stagnant". The oil still = gushes out of the front, centre & rear housing galleries, flows over = the heat exchanger tubes/fins, and the oil pick-up removes exactly the = same amount at the same rate, forcing it into the oil galleries of the = engine, where it then gushes out of the front, centre & rear housing = galleries, flows over the heat exchanger, and the oil pick-up removes = exactly the same amount at the same rate, forcing it into the oil = galleries of the engine ... Ad Infinitum. But I've just said basically what Mike Wynnn just posted. Hmmmmmmmm ... = Two soldiers out of step together .... better have a talk to the drum = major! Cheers, Leon P.S. To make it work properly, the heat exchanger must be fed COLD water = from the pressure side of the pump, not the heater outlet at the back = of the block (but we already HAD that conversation about why nobody = could get the Factory Mazda oil/water heat exchangers to work, ... = didn't we ... ??) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Al Gietzen=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 2:32 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: water cooled matrix in the oil pan I was reading through some of the old postings and came across Leon's = post in which he suggested putting a water cooled matrix in a modified oil = pan (sump). This seems to have a lot going for it. The posting is #1188. = Of course there are minor issues like not stuffing the dipstick through = the cooler matrix and making sure the oil pick up goes to the right place, = but nothing insurmountable. There were no follow up postings and yet it seemed quite a decent = idea. What am I missing (apart from pictures of wombats and/or nude moose).=20 The problem with this is that the oil is essentially stagnant in the = pan; therefore very poor heat transfer characteristics. Al ------=_NextPart_000_0031_01C4FB05.EFDFB400 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hey Al,
 
How do you come to the conclusion that = the oil is=20 "stagnant in the pan".  What difference does the presence of a heat = exchanger,  be it a full tote odds custom unit,  or a = just=20 a series of tubes in the pan,  have on oil flow?? = Sure,  the=20 oil may be a little slow flowing through the fins when it's cold,  = but as=20 the oil warms up,  this goes away.  But,  y'see, =  the trick=20 is to make the heat exchanger unit out of the correct core=20 material.  Obviously,  one doesn't use oil cooler core or = radiator core (or an evap core!!)!  Something like an auto tranny = cooler is=20 more the G-O ...  nice big flat widely spaced fins ... on edge to = the oil=20 flow ... maaaaaate ....
 
So I'm flummoxed as to how the oil = can be=20 "stagnant".   The oil still gushes out of the front,  = centre=20 & rear housing galleries,  flows over the heat exchanger=20 tubes/fins,  and the oil pick-up removes exactly the same amount at = the=20 same rate,  forcing it into the oil galleries of the engine,  = where it=20 then gushes out of the front,  centre & rear housing = galleries, =20 flows over the heat exchanger,  and the oil pick-up removes exactly = the=20 same amount at the same rate,  forcing it into the oil galleries of = the=20 engine ... Ad Infinitum.
 
But I've just said basically what Mike = Wynnn just=20 posted.  Hmmmmmmmm ...  Two soldiers out of step together .... = better=20 have a talk to the drum major!
 
Cheers,
 
Leon
 
P.S.
 
To make it work properly,  the = heat exchanger=20 must be fed COLD water from the pressure side of the pump,  not the = heater=20 outlet at the back of the block (but we already HAD that conversation = about why=20 nobody could get the Factory Mazda oil/water heat = exchangers to=20  work, ... didn't we ... ??)
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Al = Gietzen=20
Sent: Saturday, January 15, = 2005 2:32=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: water = cooled=20 matrix in the oil pan

I=20 was reading through some of the old postings and came across=20 Leon's post

in which he suggested putting a water cooled = matrix in=20 a modified oil pan

(sump).  This seems to have a lot going = for=20 it.  The posting is #1188.  Of

course there are minor issues like not = stuffing the=20 dipstick through the

cooler matrix and making sure the oil pick = up goes to=20 the right place, but

nothing insurmountable.

 

There were no follow up postings and yet it = seemed=20 quite a decent idea.

What am I missing (apart from pictures of = wombats=20 and/or nude moose).

 

The problem with this = is that=20 the oil is essentially stagnant in the pan; therefore very poor heat = transfer=20 characteristics.

 

Al

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