Return-Path: Received: from mxsf25.cluster1.charter.net ([209.225.28.225] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2.5) with ESMTP id 555384 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 03 Dec 2004 18:46:57 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.225.28.225; envelope-from=cardmarc@charter.net Received: from mxip16.cluster1.charter.net (mxip16a.cluster1.charter.net [209.225.28.146]) by mxsf25.cluster1.charter.net (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iB3NkQSG015708 for ; Fri, 3 Dec 2004 18:46:27 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO homeoffice) (68.191.212.162) by mxip16.cluster1.charter.net with ESMTP; 03 Dec 2004 18:46:26 -0500 X-Ironport-AV: i="3.87,123,1099285200"; d="scan'217,208"; a="650244091:sNHT39588450" From: "Marc Wiese" To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: exhaust help Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 17:46:19 -0600 Message-ID: <000201c4d992$4d299580$6502a8c0@homeoffice> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01C4D960.0290AC20" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C4D960.0290AC20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kevin, I think I would be wasting my time if I did not turbo an engine that begs for it like the later versions of the 13B and the 20B (because they came that way!). It is more a problem of matching the turbo for aircraft use (car turbos are a no-no without drastic mods-copy an aircraft turbo sizing for the same hp), making heat shields and putting the right control and safety system together (blow off valve, waste gate, intercooler, piping, etc). I would never wrap pipes with anything-you have to check for cracks all the time. Maybe "jet hot" but no tape.... Bellows are mostly for thermal expansion and contraction adjustment of the manifold itself so the manifold doesn't break off of its mounts to the engine or break the rigid turbo frame mount that is used to carry the turbo weight above the manifold. There should be no weight carried by the manifold except perhaps it's own. I have never seen a stock or aftermarket car manifold with bellows, but I bet there are some. You have to make your own what with aircraft considerations, but the bellows are available on the maket for weld up. The one pictured was custom made by Racing beat for a 1000 hp 20B turbo set up, that's why the 4 bolt attachments mod. Oh,,,,I was wrong on it not having a wastegate exit-that's what the big band clamp flange is for, I just haven't seen many like this. It is a masterpiece. Many certified turbo aircraft have sorts of bellows, swivel ball joints, band clamp wastegate and discharge fittings, and have slip fit joints in the piping that do some of the same things the bellows do-allow for expansion and contraction of the pipes themselves. When I had a hard drive crash all my 20B pics disappeared, but if I think of it I will take another pic of the 20B manifold T04 type I have and post it. You might find it in the archives. Marc -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of kevin lane Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 4:51 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: exhaust help are the bellows to relieve stress on the welds from expansion? why don't all headers have bellows? my plane won't have a turbo. Kevin Lane Portland, OR e-mail-> n3773@comcast.net web-> http://home.comcast.net/~n3773 (browse w/ internet explorer) ----- Original Message ----- From: Marc Wiese To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 2:04 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: exhaust help Very dicy to find one for a 20B. I did find one from the Japanese RE Amyeia (sp?) but the wastegate goes the "wrong way" toward the prop...and you will need a spacer to get the turbine housing away from the engine as well......I think Bob Darrah welded his own up out of inconel..kudos to him, wish I could do that! Best bet-when ready to fit to engine with mount all done, make up your own from 321 ss with expansion bellows and make sure it fits.with an external wastegate..unlike the one Racing Beat did for experimentation pictured here as it has no wastegate... Marc Wiese -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of kevin lane Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 12:02 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] exhaust help I am at the stage of designing my exhaust layout for my 20B. what direction would a stock exhaust manifold exit? I'm guessing that I will have to have one in hand to see how the clearances are around the engine mount. that may force me to have one fabricated. any idea on the availability a 20B exhaust manifold? Kevin Lane Portland, OR e-mail-> n3773@comcast.net web-> http://home.comcast.net/~n3773 (browse w/ internet explorer) ----- Original Message ----- From: Russell Duffy To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 1:35 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bernie Update, Good news& bad, empty weight and injectors Yep, Tracy listened to them click and they all sounded good when he was here 2 weeks ago. I have pulled them and currently thinking of ways to test them off the airplane at the minute. They are 195500-1350's and if you do have some that I could try, would appreciate you mailing them to me. I'll be happy to reimburse you the mailing cost! I'm sure Tracy also checked the impedance? Were they high or low (with external resistors)? The number you have came in two flavors, one was red, low impedance and came in the 86-87 NA engines. The other was purple, high impedance, and came in 88 NA engines. I believe I have two of the 88 high impedance version at the hanger. If that's what you have, I'll sent them your way, though it will probably be Monday before I can mail them. Rusty Mazda RX-7(Gen 1 and 2) Fuel injector identification guide Year | type | impedance | plug style | plug notch position | flow rating | color | part number ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 84-85 | 13B NT | low | square | center | 680cc | orange | 195500-0900 86-87 | 13B NT | low | square | center | 460cc | red | 195500-1350 86-87 | 13B T | low | square | center | 550cc | tan | 195500-1370 88 | 13B NT | high | square | offset | 460cc | purple | 195500-1350 88 | 13b T | high | square | offset | 550cc | purple | 195500-1370 89-91 | 13B NT | high | oval | center | 460cc | red | 195500-2010 89-91 | 13B T | high | oval | center | 550cc | purple | 195500-2020 _____ >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C4D960.0290AC20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message

Kevin,

I think I would be wasting my time = if I did not turbo an engine that begs for it like the later versions of the = 13B and the 20B (because they came that way!). It is more a problem of matching = the turbo for aircraft use (car turbos are a = no-no without drastic mods-copy an aircraft turbo = sizing for the same hp), making heat shields and putting the right control and = safety system together (blow off valve, waste gate, intercooler, piping, etc). I would = never wrap pipes with anything-you have to check for cracks all the time. = Maybe “jet hot” but no tape……..

Bellows are mostly for thermal = expansion and contraction adjustment of the manifold itself so the manifold = doesn’t break off of its mounts to the engine or break the rigid turbo frame = mount that is used to carry the turbo weight above the manifold. There should be no = weight carried by the manifold except perhaps it’s = own.

I have never seen a stock or = aftermarket car manifold with bellows, but I bet there are some. You have to make = your own what with aircraft considerations, but the bellows are available on the = maket for weld up. The one pictured was custom = made by Racing beat for a 1000 hp 20B turbo set up, that’s why the 4 bolt attachments mod. Oh,,,,I was wrong on it not having a wastegate = exit-that’s what the big band clamp flange is for, I just haven’t seen many = like this. It is a masterpiece.

Many certified turbo aircraft have = sorts of bellows, swivel ball joints, band clamp wastegate and discharge fittings, and have slip fit joints in the piping that do = some of the same things the bellows do-allow for expansion and contraction of = the pipes themselves.

When I had a hard drive crash all = my 20B pics disappeared, but if I think of it I will take another pic of the 20B = manifold T04 type I have and post it. You might find it in the = archives.

Marc

 

-----Original = Message-----
From: Rotary motors in = aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of kevin = lane
Sent: = Friday, December 03, = 2004 4:51 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = exhaust help

 

are the bellows = to relieve stress on the welds from expansion?  why don't all headers have bellows?  my plane won't have a turbo.

----- Original Message = -----

Sent: Friday, December 03, = 2004 2:04 PM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: exhaust help

 

Very dicy to = find one for a 20B. I did find one from the Japanese RE Amyeia (sp?) but the = wastegate goes the “wrong way” toward the prop…..and you will need a = spacer to get the turbine housing away from the engine as well……..……I think Bob Darrah welded his own up = out of inconel……kudos to him, wish I could do that! Best bet-when = ready to fit to engine with mount all done, make up your own from 321 ss with = expansion bellows and make sure it fits…with an external = wastegate….unlike the one Racing Beat did for experimentation pictured here as it has no wastegate…..

Marc = Wiese

 =

 =

 =

-----Original = Message-----
From: Rotary motors in = aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of kevin lane
Sent: = Friday, December 03, = 2004 12:02 PM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] = exhaust help

 

I am at the stage = of designing my exhaust layout for my 20B.  what direction would a = stock exhaust manifold exit?  I'm guessing that I will have to have one = in hand to see how the clearances are around the engine mount.  that may force = me to have one fabricated.  any idea on the availability a 20B exhaust = manifold?

----- Original Message = -----

Sent: Thursday, December 02, = 2004 1:35 PM

Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Bernie Update, Good news& bad, empty weight and = injectors

 

Yep, = Tracy listened to them click and = they all sounded good when he was here 2 weeks ago. I have pulled them and = currently thinking of ways to test them off the airplane at the minute. They are 195500-1350's and if you do have some that I could try, would appreciate = you mailing them to me. I'll be happy to reimburse you the mailing = cost!

 

I'm sure = Tracy = also checked the impedance?  Were they high or low (with external = resistors)?  The number you have came in two flavors, one was red, low impedance and came = in the 86-87 NA engines.  The other was purple, high = impedance, and came in 88 NA engines.  I believe I have two of the 88 high = impedance version at the hanger.  If that's what you have, I'll sent them = your way, though it will probably be Monday before I can mail them.  =

 

Rusty

 

 

Mazda RX-7(Gen 1 and 2) = Fuel injector identification guide

 

Year | type | impedance | = plug style | plug notch position | flow rating | color | part = number

 

----------------------------= --------------------------------------------

=

 

84-85 | 13B NT | low  = | square | center  | 680cc | orange | 195500-0900
86-87 | 13B NT | low  | square | center  | 460cc | red       | 195500-1350
86-87 | 13B T    | low  | square | center | 550cc =  | tan       | 195500-1370
88       | 13B NT | high | square | = offset  | 460cc | purple  | 195500-1350
88       | 13b T    | high = | square | offset  | 550cc | purple  | 195500-1370
89-91 | 13B NT | high | oval      | center | = 460cc | red       | 195500-2010
89-91 | 13B T    | high | oval     | center  | 550cc | purple  | 195500-2020

 

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