Return-Path: Received: from [65.54.241.200] (HELO hotmail.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2) with ESMTP id 385290 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 30 Aug 2004 15:58:38 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=65.54.241.200; envelope-from=lors01@msn.com Received: from hotmail.com ([65.54.169.52]) by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 30 Aug 2004 12:58:07 -0700 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 30 Aug 2004 12:58:07 -0700 Received: from 65.54.97.186 by bay3-dav22.bay3.hotmail.com with DAV; Mon, 30 Aug 2004 19:58:07 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [65.54.97.186] X-Originating-Email: [lors01@msn.com] X-Sender: lors01@msn.com From: "Tracy Crook" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine run - Good news/bad news Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 15:58:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_039C_01C48EAA.22E67690" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: MSN 9 X-MimeOLE: Produced By MSN MimeOLE V9.10.0006.2205 Seal-Send-Time: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 15:58:05 -0400 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Aug 2004 19:58:07.0829 (UTC) FILETIME=[AB65B050:01C48ECB] Return-Path: lors01@msn.com This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_039C_01C48EAA.22E67690 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello all, Just back from vacation (Colorado, so beautiful I had to buy some dirt = there). I talked to Al and it is obvious that his rear prop shaft = bearing did not get drilled prior to delivery. I've made many screw-ups = but this was a new one. Gave him instructions on how to drill but = forgot to tell him that an AN fitting screwed into the port helps guide = the bit to center of bearing groove (not critical though). I don't think he could have spun the bearing in the time and rpm he ran = it. I have had the pleasure of spinning that bearing (on the prototype = drive) while in-flight. It was just a press fit at that time and the = higher rate of expansion of aluminum allowed the bearing to spin. = Amazingly, I flew the drive for 1.5 hours after it spun. The symptom = was a momentary unexplained sag in power, much like spark plug sag that = long time rotary fliers are familiar with. All production drives have = pinned rear bearings. Tracy (still recovering from vacation lag) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Ed Anderson=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 6:16 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine run - Good news/bad news Al, Sounds like you are looking at the brass "sleeve" bearing around = the prop shaft. Should, of course,have an opening for the oil. If this = PSRU was run on the dyno it sounds that like either: 1. This condition existed before the dyno runs (could be a missed step = in manufacturing) or 2. The sleeve has sheared its pins and spun in the casting. Ed Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Al Gietzen=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 5:36 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine run - Good news/bad news Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine run - Good news/bad news Took the fitting out; soaked out the oil. Shining a light in = reveals a nice smooth surface of brass seated tight to the casting. No = place for the oil to go. =20 Al Al, check for foreign debris in the inlet too. Dave Leonard 2. The joy was short-lived because it was only a one minute run = while I had the redrive drain line disconnected. Taking the drain line = off gave the first clue. No sign that a drop of oil had ever been = there. The amount of oil in the container after the run - zippo; not a = drop. I took off the feed line and there was oil sitting in the = fitting. Feeding to a container, I ran again for less than 30 seconds, = and sent more than a pint into the container. Complete blockage inside = the drive. The prospect of removing the prop, drive and disassembly is = not a happy one.=20 =20 Al, something you might try before taking the gearbox off (a = pain to say the least). Its been know for such stuff as the silicon = grey sealant to plug up the drains. Yes, unlikely that it would have = plugged up the front one. But, short of taking off the gear box you = might try removing the drain fittings - just in the remote chance they = could be plugged. Ed With two exits and 100 psi oil; my guess is it's highly unlikely = that the explanation is 'foreign matter'. I think there is no oil going = into the drive. It appears to me from the diagram that the oil goes in = through a bushing via a hole and/or groove. Most likely a misalignment = there giving the oil nowhere to go. I'll check further later today. Al ------=_NextPart_000_039C_01C48EAA.22E67690 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello all,
Just back from vacation (Colorado, so beautiful I had to=20 buy some dirt there).  I talked to Al and it is obvious that = his rear=20 prop shaft bearing did not get drilled prior to delivery.  I've = made many=20 screw-ups but this was a new one.  Gave him instructions on how to = drill=20 but forgot to tell him that an AN fitting screwed into the port helps = guide the=20 bit to center of bearing groove (not critical though).
 
I don't think he could have spun the bearing in the time and rpm he = ran=20 it.  I have had the pleasure of spinning that bearing (on the = prototype=20 drive) while in-flight.    It was just a press fit at = that time=20 and the higher rate of expansion of aluminum allowed the bearing to = spin. =20 Amazingly, I flew the drive for 1.5 hours after it spun.  The = symptom was a=20 momentary unexplained sag in power, much like spark plug sag that = long time=20 rotary fliers are familiar with.  All production drives have = pinned=20 rear bearings.
 
Tracy  (still recovering from vacation lag)
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Anderson
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 = 6:16=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Engine = run -=20 Good news/bad news

Al, Sounds like you are looking at = the brass=20 "sleeve" bearing around the prop shaft.  Should, of = course,have an=20 opening for the oil.  If this PSRU was run on the dyno it sounds = that=20 like either:
 
1. This condition existed before = the dyno=20 runs (could be a missed step in manufacturing) or
2. The sleeve has sheared its pins = and spun in=20 the casting.
 
Ed
 
 
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Al=20 Gietzen
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 = 5:36=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Engine run -=20 Good news/bad news

Subject:=20 [FlyRotary] Re: Engine run - Good news/bad news

 

Took = the fitting=20 out; soaked out the oil.  Shining a light in reveals a nice = smooth=20 surface of brass seated tight to the casting.  No place for the = oil to=20 go. 

 

Al

Al,=20 check for foreign debris in the inlet too.

Dave=20 Leonard

 

2. The joy was = short-lived=20 because it was only a one minute run while I had the redrive = drain line=20 disconnected.  Taking the drain line off gave the first = clue. =20 No sign that a drop of oil had ever been there.  The amount = of oil=20 in the container after the run =96 zippo; not a drop.  I = took off the=20 feed line and there was oil sitting in the fitting.  = Feeding to a=20 container, I ran again for less than 30 seconds, and sent more = than a=20 pint into the container.  Complete blockage inside the = drive. =20 The prospect of removing the prop, drive and disassembly is not = a happy=20 one.

  

Al, = something=20 you might try before taking the gearbox off (a pain to say the=20 least).  Its been know for such stuff as the silicon grey = sealant=20 to plug up the drains.  Yes, unlikely that it would have = plugged up=20 the front one.  But, short of taking off the gear box you = might try=20 removing the drain fittings - just in the remote chance they = could be=20 plugged.

 

Ed

With two exits and 100 = psi oil; my=20 guess is it=92s highly unlikely that the explanation is = =91foreign=20 matter=92.  I think there is no oil going into the = drive.  It=20 appears to me from the diagram that the oil goes in through a = bushing=20 via a hole and/or groove.  Most likely a misalignment there = giving=20 the oil nowhere to go.  I=92ll check further later=20 today.

 

Al

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