Return-Path: <13brv3@bellsouth.net> Received: from imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net ([205.152.59.71] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2) with ESMTP id 380826 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 27 Aug 2004 09:47:45 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=205.152.59.71; envelope-from=13brv3@bellsouth.net Received: from rd ([65.6.194.9]) by imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.08 201-253-122-130-108-20031117) with ESMTP id <20040827134715.QSTO1796.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@rd> for ; Fri, 27 Aug 2004 09:47:15 -0400 From: "Russell Duffy" <13brv3@bellsouth.net> To: "'Rotary motors in aircraft'" Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Engine run Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 08:47:30 -0500 Message-ID: <005a01c48c3c$65bd2ec0$6101a8c0@rd> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005B_01C48C12.7CE726C0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005B_01C48C12.7CE726C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At about 2000 I adjusted mixture from too lean to too rich, and nowhere = does it smooth out completely I'm with Dave on this one. You want the smoothest MAP source possible, = and that will mean connecting all 3 ports, or perhaps just finding the one = that works best. I'm still working on this too. On my latest intake, = controller A would run fine (using a port on one of the TWM barrels), but = controller B wouldn't run below about 2000 rpm (using the other port on the TWM). I connected the two ports with a T, and not both idle just the same, which = may not be as smooth as A was before I joined the lines. Eventually, I'll = get around to tying both controllers to one TWM port at a time. =20 =20 Another odd thought I had was to possibly put a small vacuum reservoir = in the MAP port line, for the purpose of smoothing out the pulses some. =20 Of course it brings back the recent discussions of you other guys with = the 550 injectors in the primary. I'm currently running four (blissfully matched) 525 MSD injectors, and I believe they'll idle OK, if I ever get the MAP port straightened out. = In the previous version, I was using 550 injectors as primaries, and tried = 460 injectors to see if they would help the idle. They made no improvement = at all. On the current setup, I lowered the fuel pressure from 42 to 36 = psi (engine off), and that probably more than made up for the larger = injectors. At 2000 I'm seeing a 13.1 MAP reading. Seems low to me. Is it? I'm sure I see similar numbers. =20 That puts it below the stage point, yet when I turned off the primary injectors, it continued to run; just rougher. Same effect turning off = the secondaries. Are you surprised that it continued to run? The EC-2 knows that you = turned off a pair of injectors, and compensates with the others as necessary. = In other words, if you turn off the primaries, below the staging point, the EC-2 will turn on the secondaries (which were previously off). Turning = off the secondaries below the staging point shouldn't do anything, since = they weren't on anyway. Above the staging point, the EC-2 will double the injector pulse width to the pair (trio in your case) of injectors that = are still on. If you turn off both sets of injectors, a hand will come out = of the EC-2 and thump you on the head :-) Fuel pressure reads 50 psi, TWM tells me it came to me preset at 43.5. = When the coolant temp read 125 when the pipes and rad tanks were just about = too hot to touch, which I guessed to be more like 140. I'm suspicious of = just about every readout. Later when the WT read 140, the CHT TC that measure temps in and out of the rads were reading about 85. I believed backup gauges were unnecessary. Painful as it may be, you're going to have to verify all your EM-2 temps = and pressures before you can believe them. I mentioned before that my fuel pressure was 42, but read 59 on the latest EM-2 software. It's reading correctly now that I've done some cal though. =20 Oh yeah; the mixture bar reads just about full scale all the time, even = when the engine is about to die from being too lean. I have a different = heated Bosch sensor, which I assumed would have the same 0-1volt range. Maybe = not. Is the sensor output voltage low when lean or rich? =20 This is something that I've bugged Tracy about pretty extensively. Mine does the same thing yours does, and Tracy says his doesn't. I used to = use the old gauge that Tracy sold, and I've done some testing with it, and = the EM-2 both connected (verified not to interfere with each other). When = the old gauge reads mid scale, the EM-2 is about 7-8 bars. Since O2 sensors = are supposed to put out 0-1V, mid scale should be .5V, so I made a variable voltage source, and used it to simulate the O2 sensor. At .5V, the EM-2 read mid scale like it's supposed to, and the other gauge read below mid scale. From that, I concluded that the EM-2 was doing what it was = designed to do, but I can't explain why my "mid scale" mixture is well above mid scale on the EM-2. I tried using a new sensor, of the same type others = are using, and it made no difference. Now that you have me thinking about = this again, I just made a note to "fix" this in the calibration mode. =20 Good luck. Don't get discouraged. Rusty (caught up) ------=_NextPart_000_005B_01C48C12.7CE726C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message

At about 2000 I adjusted mixture from too lean to too = rich, and=20 nowhere does it smooth out completely

I'm with = Dave on this=20 one.  You want the smoothest MAP source possible, and that will = mean=20 connecting all 3 ports, or perhaps just finding the one that works = best. =20 I'm still working on this too.  On my latest intake, controller A = would run=20 fine (using a port on one of the TWM barrels), but controller B wouldn't = run=20 below about 2000 rpm (using the other port on the TWM).  I = connected the=20 two ports with a T, and not both idle just the same, which may not be as = smooth=20 as A was before I joined the lines.  Eventually, I'll get = around to=20 tying both controllers to one TWM port at a time.  =
 
Another = odd thought I=20 had was to possibly put a small vacuum reservoir in the MAP port line, = for the=20 purpose of smoothing out the pulses some. 

Of course it brings back the recent discussions of you other guys = with the=20 550 injectors in the primary.

I'm currently = running four=20 (blissfully matched) 525 MSD=20 injectors, and I believe they'll idle OK, if I ever get the MAP port=20 straightened out.  In the previous version, I was using 550=20 injectors as primaries, and tried 460 injectors to see if they = would=20 help the idle.  They made no improvement at all.   On the = current setup, I lowered the fuel pressure from 42 to 36 psi = (engine off),=20 and that probably more than made up for the larger injectors. =20   

At 2000 I’m seeing a 13.1 MAP reading.  Seems low to = me.  Is=20 it?

I'm sure I see similar = numbers. =20

 That puts it below the stage point, yet when I turned off the = primary=20 injectors, it continued to run; just rougher.  Same effect turning = off the=20 secondaries.

Are you surprised that it = continued to=20 run?  The EC-2 knows that you turned off a pair of injectors, and=20 compensates with the others as necessary.  In other words, if you = turn off=20 the primaries, below the staging point, the EC-2 will turn on the = secondaries=20 (which were previously off).  Turning off the secondaries below the = staging=20 point shouldn't do anything, since they weren't on anyway.  Above = the=20 staging point, the EC-2 will double the injector pulse width to the pair = (trio=20 in your case) of injectors that are still on.  If you turn off both = sets of=20 injectors, a hand will come out of the EC-2 and thump you on the head=20 :-)

Fuel pressure reads 50 psi, TWM tells me it came to me preset at = 43.5. =20 When the coolant temp read 125 when the pipes and rad tanks were just = about too=20 hot to touch, which I guessed to be more like 140.  I’m = suspicious of just=20 about every readout. Later when the WT read 140, the CHT TC that measure = temps=20 in and out of the rads were reading about 85.  I believed backup = gauges=20 were unnecessary.

Painful as it may be, = you're going to=20 have to verify all your EM-2 temps and pressures before you can believe=20 them.  I mentioned before that my fuel pressure was 42, but read 59 = on the=20 latest EM-2 software.  It's reading correctly now that I've done = some cal=20 though. 

Oh yeah; the mixture bar reads just about full scale all the time, = even when=20 the engine is about to die from being too lean.  I have a different = heated=20 Bosch sensor, which I assumed would have the same 0-1volt range.  = Maybe=20 not.  Is the sensor output voltage low when lean or rich?  =

This is something = that I've=20 bugged Tracy about pretty extensively.  Mine does the same thing = yours=20 does, and Tracy says his doesn't.  I used to use the old gauge that = Tracy=20 sold, and I've done some testing with it, and the EM-2 both connected = (verified=20 not to interfere with each other).  When the old gauge reads mid = scale, the=20 EM-2 is about 7-8 bars.  Since O2 sensors are supposed to put out = 0-1V, mid=20 scale should be .5V, so I made a variable voltage source, and used it to = simulate the O2 sensor.  At .5V, the EM-2 read mid scale like it's = supposed=20 to, and the other gauge read below mid scale.  From that, I = concluded that=20 the EM-2 was doing what it was designed to do, but I can't explain why = my "mid=20 scale" mixture is well above mid scale on the EM-2.   I tried=20 using a new sensor, of the same type others are using, and it made = no=20 difference.  Now that you have me thinking about this again, I just = made a=20 note to "fix" this in the calibration = mode.   

Good luck.  Don't get=20 discouraged.

Rusty (caught = up)

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