Return-Path: Received: from [24.25.9.100] (HELO ms-smtp-01-eri0.southeast.rr.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2) with ESMTP id 378476 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 25 Aug 2004 20:41:42 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=24.25.9.100; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from EDWARD (cpe-069-132-183-211.carolina.rr.com [69.132.183.211]) by ms-smtp-01-eri0.southeast.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i7Q0f9Pg001949 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 2004 20:41:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001201c48b05$62041ab0$2402a8c0@EDWARD> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: more myths questioned! Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 20:41:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C48AE3.DABDFD30" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C48AE3.DABDFD30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MessageI agree with Dave, that tubes are both lighter and cheaper (by = far). However, I do not use tubes FWF only stainless steel braided = lines and so far have never had a leak develop. Yeah! had some on first = start up that required a bit more tightening but none once operational. = The down side is cost and weight - one reason my bird is on the hefty = side {:>). Ed Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC ----- Original Message -----=20 From: DaveLeonard=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 8:20 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: more myths questioned! Kevin, I'm no A&P but I use rigid lines. Sure does weigh a lot less = and puts less stress on the fittings. Leaks more, and makes me nervous = sometimes. I used a long line for coolant that was poorly supported, = and it cracked at about 50 hrs. Stupid! Stupid! Have since replaced = it, but still use rigid lines for my psru and turbo. Dave Leonard OK, without stirring up a hornets nest-- could I safely run a rigid = oil line to the redrive and back if both ends were rigidly engine = mounted? I would make sure there are bends in it for flex and well = supported. I have rigid brake lines on my -6a, with a 360 degree loop = at the end, although admittedly, had one end crack, but I believe that = was from a combination of multiple removals and later learning that my = hangar partner's flange tool was actually automotive, not aviation. I've = had no problems on my Lycoming otherwise with rigid lines. I know some = guys run flex lines everywhere, which seems heavy and expensive. Kevin Lane Portland, OR e-mail-> n3773@comcast.net web-> http://home.comcast.net/~n3773 (browse w/ internet explorer) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: paul=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 9:26 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Sorry Rusty - no bind ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Russell Duffy=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 9:31 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Sorry Rusty - no bind please don't take this as being critical, I'm just asking - is = it true or not that engine fittings should be steel, not aluminum? or = is that just a myth? does aluminum fatigue faster than steel? what do = certified piston planes use? Kevin Lane Portland, OR =20 This is sort of a controversial subject. There is probably an = official FAA rule, or at least rule of thumb about only using steel = fittings when there's relative motion on the two ends of a hose. Of = course screwing steel fittings, into an aluminum gear drive would also = violate some dissimilar metal rules, so damned if you do, damned if you = don't. =20 Since I was schooled at the Van's Aircraft institute, I follow = the more common sense rules. If it's a small fitting, that isn't very = strong, it's best to use steel. If it's a fairly large fitting, then = aluminum is plenty strong. AN-6 is about the dividing line, and it = comes down to whether there's much motion. In the case of the drain = fitting you see in the pic, there's no relative motion, so I feel = aluminum is fine. =20 Cheers, Rusty (not an A&P, and don't even play one on TV) =20 This topic was recently discussed on the canard aviator's = website....seems that Lycoming is sending their brand new engines with = aluminum fittings. I agree, however that there is comfort in using = steel for the smaller (-4) sizes. I have -16 aluminum AN fittings for = my radiator hoses, and it would take a sledgehammer to damage one of = those aluminum fittings. The general consensus on the canard site was = similar....steel for the smaller fittings, but aluminum was fine for -6 = sizes and larger. I guess they figure that if Lycoming can supply a = certified engine with aluminum fittings, it's OK on our experimentals. = FWIW. Paul Conner ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C48AE3.DABDFD30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
I agree with Dave, that tubes are both = lighter and=20 cheaper (by far).  However, I do not use tubes FWF only stainless = steel=20 braided lines and so far have never had a leak develop.  Yeah! had = some on=20 first start up that required a bit more tightening but none once=20 operational.  The down side is cost and weight - one reason my bird = is on=20 the hefty side {:>).
 
Ed
 
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 DaveLeonard=20
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, = 2004 8:20=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: more = myths=20 questioned!

Kevin, I'm no=20 A&P but I use rigid lines.  Sure does weigh a lot less and = puts less=20 stress on the fittings.  Leaks more, and makes me nervous=20 sometimes.  I used a long line for coolant that was poorly = supported, and=20 it cracked at about 50 hrs.  Stupid! Stupid!  Have since = replaced=20 it, but still use rigid lines for my psru and = turbo.
 
Dave=20 Leonard
OK, without stirring up a = hornets=20 nest-- could I safely run a rigid oil line to the redrive and back = if both=20 ends were rigidly engine mounted?  I would make sure there are = bends in=20 it for flex and well supported.  I have rigid brake lines on my = -6a,=20 with a 360 degree loop at the end, although admittedly, had one end = crack,=20 but I believe that was from a combination of multiple removals and = later=20 learning that my hangar partner's flange tool was actually = automotive, not=20 aviation. I've had no problems on my Lycoming otherwise with rigid=20 lines.  I know some guys run flex lines everywhere, which seems = heavy=20 and expensive.
Kevin Lane  Portland, = OR
e-mail-> n3773@comcast.net
web-> = http://home.comcast.net/~n3773
(browse=20 w/ internet explorer)
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 paul
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, = 2004 9:26=20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Sorry Rusty=20 - no bind

 
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 Russell=20 Duffy
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft=20
Sent: Monday, August 23, = 2004 9:31=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Sorry=20 Rusty - no bind

please=20 don't take this as being critical, I'm just asking - is it true = or not=20 that engine fittings should be steel, not aluminum?  or is = that=20 just a myth? does aluminum fatigue faster than steel?  what = do=20 certified piston planes use?
Kevin Lane  Portland, OR
 
 
This=20 is sort of a controversial subject.  There is probably = an=20 official FAA rule, or at least rule of thumb about only = using steel=20 fittings when there's relative motion on the two ends of a=20 hose.  Of course screwing steel fittings, = into an=20 aluminum gear drive would also violate some dissimilar metal = rules, so=20 damned if you do, damned if you don't.  =
 
Since=20 I was schooled at the Van's Aircraft institute, I = follow the=20 more common sense rules.  If it's a small fitting, that = isn't very=20 strong, it's best to use steel.  If it's a fairly = large=20 fitting, then aluminum is plenty strong.  AN-6 is about the = dividing line, and it comes down to whether there's much = motion. =20 In the case of the drain fitting you see in the pic, there's no = relative=20 motion, so I feel aluminum is = fine.  
 
Cheers,
Rusty=20 (not an A&P, and don't even play one on=20 TV)  
 
This topic=20 was recently discussed on the canard aviator's website....seems = that=20 Lycoming is sending their brand new engines with aluminum=20 fittings.  I agree, however that there is comfort in using = steel=20 for the smaller (-4) sizes.  I have -16 aluminum AN = fittings for my=20 radiator hoses, and it would take a sledgehammer to damage one = of those=20 aluminum fittings. The general consensus on the canard site was=20 similar....steel for the smaller fittings, but aluminum was fine = for -6=20 sizes and larger.  I guess they figure that if Lycoming can = supply=20 a certified engine with aluminum fittings, it's OK on our=20 experimentals.  FWIW.  Paul=20 = Conner
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